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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 11471
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 Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | the Catholic Church does not teach that those who are not Catholic are destined for hell. |
Many individual Catholic churches do teach that. That's all I claimed or implied. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2180
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Name them. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1513
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | isobars wrote: | | Tolerant? My seriously Catholic neighbor and good friend informed me I was destined for hell because I am not a Catholic. He told his less-devout sister she was going to hell, leading to a decades-long rift in the family. Many Catholics from multiple continents have confirmed to me they are also taught that in their church. I've found devout Mormons to be more tolerant than Catholics. |
..........all of which merely reinforces two incontrovertible facts; that flimsy anecdotal evidence is worthless, and that there are not-so-smart people in every large organization. If anyone here cares, the Catholic Church does not teach that those who are not Catholic are destined for hell. |
I was raised Catholic, and I was taught that if one quit the Catholic Church, he would go to hell. I am relieved that the Church is now kinder and gentler. However, my folks were told a few years back by their Priest that if they voted for Tom Dashle (South Dakota Senator) they would be guilty of a "grave sin". Now, I was taught a "grave sin" would be "hell worthy" if on your soul at the time you died. I suppose with enough votive candles, my brothers and sisters can help out dear old Mom and Dad for their transgression. The anecdotal evidence is adding up!
All of this is beside the point. I respect that Catholics can believe this if they choose. I just don't want it shoved down my throat when I am forced to use a Catholic hospital because it is the only choice available. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2180
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| boggsman1 wrote: | | My wife is Catholic...and whenever I blow her off to go windsurf, MTB, or ski, she says I'm going to hell! Thats TWO anecdotes.... |
Glad there's a chance for at least one member of your household! Glad also that you can retain a sense of humor.........the markets sure are going to hell. I have a sinking feeling my predictions are spot on and your guru Mark Zandi is wrong. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 11471
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| coboardhead wrote: | 1. One must be relatively poor to qualify at most clinics.
2. the ACA act provides pretty broad powers to the Dept. of HHS
3. the ACA is stressing a whole care patient treatment. The emphasis is to get folks to visit their primary care doc to receive screening for diseases and unhealthy lifestyles.
4. For women, this visit would include a discussion of reproductive health. Preventing an unplanned pregnancy has significant health benefits. A prescription for contraceptives is often provided. It would seem rather uneconomical to go to the expense of providing all this service and stop short of covering the cost of the contraceptives.
5. will this cause a "run" on doctors?
6. Because doctors will spend more time treating health than disease.
7. "An ounce of prevention...." |
1. And if they aren't poor, why should they receive unearned entitlements from taxpayers?
2. Considering the inhuman freak Obama appointed to head HHS, that should scare the hell out of decent human beings everywhere. She's better suited to run China's eugenics program than our birth management program, as evidenced by her attempts to mislead the Congress about the $500B Medicare doublebooking and about whether she consulted with the DoJ before making national-level legal decisions; by her drooling support of abortions of nine-month babies "because that's what the mother wants"; and by her support of Holdren and Ehrlich, whose writings clearly associate them with Joseph Goebbels' regard for humankind.
3. People do not avail themselves of preventative medicine in large numbers. Look how many smoke, do drugs, eat junk food, weigh 300 pounds, inflict themselves with Type 2 diabetes, etc. Besides, "task force" advisories to cease mammograms and PSA testing are well on their way to eliminating those cancer screenings from health care coverage.
4. People are also advised to eat properly. Does then entitle them to taxpayer-provided food?
5. Whether free birth control does or not, the extra 45M covered patients and the stampede of physicians from federal health care programs certainly will.
6. I've dealt with almost as many physicians as your wife has, at least at the receiving end. Few of them know squat about preventative medicine, especially nutrition and exercise, and the outright lies two radiological oncologists fed me were the final straw in my respect for for the medical profession at large. I now screen physicians and their advice every bit as thoroughly as I do cars and boards I'm considering buying, and the pickings will get far slimmer as their pay plummets and regulations skyrocket.
7. Do you really believe the $9/month cost of the pill is going to stop many women from using them? |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 2975
Location: at a computer
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | boggsman1 wrote: | | My wife is Catholic...and whenever I blow her off to go windsurf, MTB, or ski, she says I'm going to hell! Thats TWO anecdotes.... |
Glad there's a chance for at least one member of your household! Glad also that you can retain a sense of humor.........the markets sure are going to hell. I have a sinking feeling my predictions are spot on and your guru Mark Zandi is wrong. |
I always have a sense of humor...even today when Marc Zandi ate his humble pie on CNBC. This is a Republican's wettest dream...enjoy it! |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2180
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| If you believe that I enjoy seeing large chunks my net worth evaporate you are much mistaken. Fortunately, I invest consistent with my own assessment of the macro-economic picture, not in line with the endless opinions of talking head "experts". A month or two more of this type of news and your candidate is toast........and rightly so. |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 2975
Location: at a computer
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| He's "my candidate" primarily because I dont want to relive the 2001-2008 period again...it took a lot out of me. History shows that total control of all three branches is not kind to markets or economies. The best combo for legislative success is prez -one party, both houses-another party. Cohesive bills get authored, not grandstanding, then sent to prez. Dems-Reagan...Repubs-Clinton would be your guides to history. With all three in one party's control, there is no checks and balances other than the filibuster. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 3361
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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A very wise woman taught me "First seek to understand." I would be happy to give mrgybe a reference--in the unlikely event he is interested. However, he seems a bit too eager to tag me as a liar and cry "gotcha" in a very Fickian type of response.
I do not think that many people raised Catholic are comfortable with abortion; I'm certainly not. The question, and a cornerstone of religious freedom, is whether it is our role in life and public policy to make decisions about abortions for those who do not share our religious views. The Supreme Court has made a decision about abortion, and Congress passed the Hyde amendment, giving the consideration it thought necessary to those whose consciences object to their contributing funding to abortion. I would love to see Congress make a similar decision to avoid funding the death penalty--but I don't see any conservatives lined up to lobby and support the sanctity of life on that issue.
Neither the Supreme Court decision, nor the Hyde amendment, have quieted the debate over abortion. I understand that holding, and expressing strong disapproval for abortion, is a fundamental right of both free speech and religious freedom. But conservatives demonstrate their lack of understanding and respect for the Constitution when they make opposition to abortion a litmus test for office, and when they attack personally the morality of all those who would allow a pregnant woman to make the choice according to her own religious views.
Of course, Obama made a concession to the church on this--and the Bishops double crossed him. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 11471
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know, don't care, what churches and/or bishops taught my Catholic sources that. One such source is some guy named Benedict XVI, and Googling the issue shows him and countless other guys in similar garb proclaiming that only Catholicism provides a path to Heaven, or to salvation, or from Hell, or from Purgatory. etc. Some bishops make that even clearer, saying all non-Catholics or fallen Catholics are going to hell. Anybody who tells me I ... or a Jew or Muslim or Bhuddist Baptist or atheist ... will go to hell just because we're not a good Catholic can just ... well ... go to hell, for all I care. That kind of thinking is one of several reasons I have so little interest in any religion. I care instead only how a church's followers treat others, and telling me I'm going to hell is not a good start.
Neither is implying that no Catholics say the only path to Heaven is via Catholicism. |
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