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Gusty/Up and Down
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chophop



Joined: 16 Apr 1996
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it is supposed to be fun.
I think if it is lulling and gusting where the gusts are twice the lulls. It ends up being stop and go sailing. NO fun!

As far as sail tuning, I am finding that on an '08 Pryde Zone, that you have to do most of the tuning with downhaul. If you flatten out the sail too much with outhaul you seem to completely lose the power sweet spot and the sail gets squirely.
Seems like with you can tune the sail close to half a meter all together. Cool
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 11487

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beallmd wrote:
I would make 2 points here. First, we do this for FUN! If its super gusty and wicked cold then screw it! If its PITA gusty but a warm summer's afternoon, then sure, why not?

PITA gusty on a hot day is OK, but with zero chance of planing it's just work (for folks not into standstill freestyle).

photodad2001 wrote:
I'll take a 7.5 out in 20 with 30 gusts while everyone else has their 4s and 5s rigged.

Yup. I was in a groove one day when I could do no wrong, planing hard almost 100% of the time, slamming out tight high-g jibes without fail, jumping regularly in the waist-high swell, virtually alone at a crowded spot because of a deep lull after hours of 4.X wind. Several better sailors came out on their 4.X sails under the misconception that the wind had come back, only to find they could not plane at all.

"What size you on?", one of them shouted.

"A 6.8 and 110 liters."

Whatever works. MANY people rig and sail by what their eyes tell them rather than by what their wake says. Tip: if you are having to hold your sail up rather than it holding you up, you need more square meters, more liters, and/or more square inches ... unless you actually LIKE slogging.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 11487

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chophop wrote:
Yeah it is supposed to be fun.
I think if it is lulling and gusting where the gusts are twice the lulls. It ends up being stop and go sailing. NO fun!

As far as sail tuning, I am finding that on an '08 Pryde Zone, that you have to do most of the tuning with downhaul. If you flatten out the sail too much with outhaul you seem to completely lose the power sweet spot and the sail gets squirely.
Seems like with you can tune the sail close to half a meter all together. Cool

Yes, but skill and confidence can add another full meter or even two. In crappy wind I'm very often on a 6.2 while most others are on 4.x's, and the really good guys may be on 7.5s. I've been powered very well full time on a tiny sinker and a 3.7 when name-brand racerhedz blew by on 6.5s. Only skill, testicular fortitude, and a whole 'nuther set of objectives -- not outhaul and downhaul tuning -- explain that level of difference.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 647
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody ever bought my idea of installing a venetian blind in the middle of the sail for those "up and down" days. Evil or Very Mad
You could open and close it as the conditions warrant, while sailing. Wink

But I wouldn't put it past yvanboniec to give it a try.
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photodad2001



Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many of these >>>> http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/IND-FA-PC-VK/TE-PVI4816W.html <<<< do you think you could bring with you? Twisted Evil
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 2:57 am    Post subject: Re: Gusty/Up and Down Reply with quote

Well, there's gusty, there's up and down, and then there's holey
Gusty, short duration, like yeh maybe a few seconds if you're lucky.
Holey, you'd recognise since you sail into a hole come to a standstill,
and sink (unless your momentum and apparent wind carry you through
the hole, then it just appears gusty.

What's good, well, I like 34-35, but that's just me ;*)
18-32 is pretty doable, and I'll rig for that(maybe a baggy
4.5 or a flat and twisted 4.7 depending on what the average
is), but I get tired pretty fast
in those conditions. 18-36 is about the cutoff point where I'd call
it hatefull, doesn't mean I won't rig for it, but I know I'm going
to take some serious abuse.

10-40, and I'd rather be doing something else, if it isn't work related.

-Craig

chophop wrote:
"Gusty"..." Up and Down" We have all heard and used these terms. But what do they mean?
I think "gusty" means changes in velocity over a very short time span like maybe a few seconds.

"Up and down" also refers to changes in velocity, but over a longer time frame, one of minutes, not seconds.

When does this variability become no fun for sailing?

Today Mike Godsey's forecast called for "extremely Up and Down" winds and looking at the Waddell sensor it is going from something like 18 to 32; and that sounds like maybe 5.7 to 3.7 during whatever I Windsurfs sampling period is. For my money that is pretty much unsailable. That is nearly a 90 % difference between lull and gust.
So what is good?
What is OK and at what point would you rather be somewhere else? Question
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2065

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in the gorge, i would defer to what the consensus is in the racer head community at the event site. in the waves, i've done lots of different things. typically, it is the onshore wave 105 that gets to help me adapt to huge up and down swings in wind.

but, some in tropical storms, i've used my 11'5 in extremely offshore winds with a 5.8 successfully. takes nearly a hurricane for the 5.2 to feel right with my long board. longer waterlines help with fore and aft stability.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 11487

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Gusty/Up and Down Reply with quote

cgoudie1 wrote:
Well, there's gusty, there's up and down, and then there's holey

Isn't the only difference between holey and gusty one's sail and board size? Rigged for comfort in the gusts, only the holes are challenging, so we declare it a holey session. Rigged to plane in the lulls during that same session, only the gusts are challenging, so we declare it a gusty session. There have been countless times I've heard many sailors complain that the wind was too holey to sail, when I thought it was fantastic wind with several long, steady sessions or even a whole day of constant planing punctuated by fuel breaks. The difference was obvious on the water and printed on their sails: I was rigged to plane in the lulls, using 30% more square meters than the guys who spent half their time slogging. Then you look at guys we've heard of, and they're often on yet another 20% just for play, or more yet for racing. It's fer SURE they aren't calling it holey.

We all have the same gear options; I suspect it's usually gear selection, more than wind statistics, that determines whether a session is holey vs gusty. The Wall's classic 10 or 40 mph days in NW winds emphasize that distinction.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 903

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars,

I think you accurately defined the issue. Of course some sailing sites are much more gusty, etc. than others, but we all face the "what to rig" dilemma often.

For me, I prefer the smaller bump and jump board and RAF sail for pure fun, so I have occasionally rigged too small hoping for wind that was only there for short periods and ended up slogging way too much.

However, the wiser move is to rig the larger slalom board, cambered sails and hang on in the gusts so that I can be planing and blasting for the majority of the time. We try to will the wind to meet our desires and too often forget realities.

The other issue is "it's going to pick up" syndrome, so you rig too small. This is frequently a dumb move. Rig for the moment and get on the water. If it does really come up, then re-rig.

It's just the frustrating world of inland lake sailors.
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beallmd



Joined: 10 May 1998
Posts: 984

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three capital rules of windsurfing;
1. Never leave wind to find wind.
2. Never wait for wind when you have wind.
3. Rig for what it is, not what you think it will be.
Face it, we've all broken them...
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