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Government Incompetence
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4056

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I don't know what business you are in, but government has increased my cost of doing business by tens of thousands of dollars over the last 10 years.

I was trying to think about a business that government didn't effect in terms of additional costs. Oh, I thought prostitution??? Then maybe not....condoms are an oil based product regulated by the epa. Yoga instuctor? No again.... Can you mention one? Don't even get me started on the extra costs a donut shop incurs because of the epa.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1933
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Dan, I don't know what business you are in, but government has increased my cost of doing business by tens of thousands of dollars over the last 10 years.

I was trying to think about a business that government didn't effect in terms of additional costs. Oh, I thought prostitution??? Then maybe not....condoms are an oil based product regulated by the epa. Yoga instuctor? No again.... Can you mention one? Don't even get me started on the extra costs a donut shop incurs because of the epa.


Steven, I'll lay it out. I started a windsurfing company last spring that lasted a total of 5 months due to management decisions over which I had little or no control. That being said, we spent several thousand dollars on attorney fees to resolve a land use issue that failed. Other decisions about operations, again without my control, resulted in additional delays, all of which combined with a poorly-timed entry into the market. Those knowing next to nothing about watersports business, with whom I partnered, bailed out. I take that as a life lesson, but absolutely reject any assertion that government overreach contributed to the financial reality.

What do you do? Please give details that support your accusations that unreasonable gov't regs cost you so much. Remember, taxes are not regulations. Regs require specific action otherwise not related to operating a going business. From there we might discuss what costs are associated and whether those costs can be agreed to be worth the social ends.

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5138

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to talking points and making it up. Without specifics Bardy claims:

Quote:
Don't even get me started on the extra costs a donut shop incurs because of the epa.


What Bard perhaps fails to realize, because he doesn't understand that competence in understanding the rules is key to complying with the laws, is that EPA has no direct role in regulating donut shops. Local governments--cities and counties--regulate the location of such shops. There is a Clean Air Act--which is why you can breathe in Los Angeles basin on most days--but the regulation is done by the local governments and rules are made by the South Coast Air Quality Management District. Bardy can't dump the grease in the sewer because it clogs the sewers and causes overflows. He can blame the Clean Water Act, but it is regulated by the local agencies.

In any event, any responsible business complies with these laws, and competes with other business that also comply with these laws. But Bardy seems to be a scofflaw that keeps getting caught. But don't get him started...
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5771

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way that I look at it, Dan has posed an interesting challenge for Bard. While Bard has consistently remarked how government regulations are too onerous and unrealistic, he is very careful never to really discuss any of the details of his small business interests. Perhaps he has reasons for this, but it doesn't help flesh out in a real way the problems he personally has with government regulations.

Of course, Republicans as a whole are not really interested in getting specific about the vast number of unwanted regulations out there, and why they need to be eliminated. Instead, they prefer to keep hammering as a talking point how regulations need to be removed to stimulate business and to create more jobs. By saying this over and over, they hope that they can somehow convince enough simple folks to join the bandwagon without actually revealing or promising anything at all.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5138

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm betting that Bard doesn't know or have anything specific. Like so many Obama haters, he is just repeating messages he gets from talk radio and doesn't think about. Some of the others--who worked in the organizations fighting regulations--are trying to reduce their operational costs, whatever the validity of the regulations. They lost on the legislation and are trying to work the process. Fill in the blanks.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1933
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll add more to my end of this "discussion" with Steven Bard. My law practice has few government regulations. I pay a annual fee to the Board of Bar Overseers. That's it in order to practice law in Massachusetts where CLE is not required. In my former practice in Kentucky, I also paid the annual fee but also was required to attend 12 hours of CLE every year. Some CLE events came at no cost, some a few hundred bucks for a few hours and keeper materials.

It's possible that I could endure more red tape if I opted to either buy or build-out an office suite. You know, that pesky fire, ADA and building code compliance.

Of course, some firms have so many employees that the firm pay for posters for certain workplace compliance laws. $12 at Staples if you are willing to risk overstating the workers rights since not every category of employer must make every particular statement.

And, in MA, possibly health care insurance for employees as well as contribution (payroll tax.)

Steven, what do you do? What do you claim are the overreaching government requirements?

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5138

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only talking points and weird stuff when you are making it up.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2638

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanWeiss wrote:

Steven, what do you do? What do you claim are the overreaching government requirements?

Mr. Bard has no answer because he has no idea.

What's laughably unfortunate about all these people screaming "over regulation" is that they fail to realize the personal protections they receive specifically because of those regulations.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1451

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will offer a response. In my line of work were I had oversight of 6 different phases of renovations on a 1980's office building being converted into a school, I ran into many frustrating and costly road blocks from:

ADA requirements
Asbestos abatement
Elevator inspections
Fire codes & inspections

While there is a great need for regulations for all of these areas, many of them go well beyond common sense and logic and all end up being very costly. I don't wish to go into detail simply because it would be exhausting.

On the other side of the issue is where electrical codes required very specific gage wire for some some particular installations, the codes weren't followed buy the electricians to save money (also missed by the general contractor and the city inspectors), plus we almost had several fires due to melting and shorting wires. The point is that wanting and needing regulations doesn't mean that they will be followed or inspected. It's just the irony of the situation. It's possible to get screwed on both sides of the issue.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5138

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So techno, you want improper remediation of asbestos and no ADA accessibility for a school? What a guy.
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