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Government Incompetence
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2673

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't dream of it. I'm feeling waaay too positive after your previous post!!
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3573
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great! Enjoy your day... and live life to the fullest Very Happy
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2673

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpbassking wrote:
Going out on a limb here with this crowd to say I support vastly increased oil drilling and production. We need to cut our dependence on Arab oil. At least until a suitable alternative is found.

Here's one alternative. From today's Daily Telegraph.

"The summit, at the Camp David presidential retreat, will tomorrow discuss a US call for developed economies to release oil from their strategic reserves to try to bring down world oil prices. The White House is arguing that a European Union embargo on Iranian oil will soon start to push up prices, a potential threat to Mr Obama's reelection campaign."
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1485

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler said:
Quote:
I'm sad to hear that you think California's university systems are a drain of tax dollars. While I don't think of California's university systems a state agency, I seriously doubt that there are any more essential state agencies in California.

You are making an issue of a non issue. State university systems no matter which state are great and needed institutions. I haven't said otherwise. However, they are a drain on tax dollars and when you add them to the EXTENSIVE list of other tax supported agencies in California, you have a mind boggling list.

To me, this looks like government out of control. However, let's assume that all of the agencies are critical and can't be eliminated. Then California's only solution is to tax everyone more to cover the "essential" agencies. Go for it and the flood of departures from the state will not doubt increase, then you will have two distinct classes left, the rich and the poor as the middle class heads for a more affordable state.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1952

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many comments here suggest that California's tax rate is signficantly higher than other states. How much higher? These tax comparisons are really hard to get a clear view. Some comparisons I have seen show overall tax rates only about 10% higher than Texas. Approximately 10% vs 11%. Is this enough to drive folks away?

When I graduated from engineering school, I got offers in both So. Calif. and Houston. When I calculated my expenses (including commuting costs, skiing and fuel to get to the Hobie launch site), vs income, So. CA was the clear winner.

Salaries in So. CA were significantly higher back in those days and, easily, offset differences in rent esp. considering the lower utility costs in CA.

I received another offer in San Fran. The ratio of income vs expense was more in line with Houston.

What it comes down to is what one wants out of life. For me, the accessibility to recreation, bike to work options and excellent weather in CA delivered. I suspect CA will continue to appeal to folks looking for those amenities and businesses will recognize those advantages.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5261

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno--you keep coming back to the list without doing the math. It's called cognitive dissonance, and it is even more prevalent for conservatives who complain about the Federal budget--but then add items to the military budget. It's one of the reasons that I wouldn't move to Virginia, home of military contractors and flacks for oil companies.

At the State level, I told you what the numbers were, and even if you eliminated all of the State employees--which you can't, because there are laws in place that the Republicans can't change--you would still face a choice between slashing education yet again, or raising taxes. Focusing on a list of State agencies as a symbol--many of which were started by Republicans to promote businesses--won't change that fact.

Now let's look at our budget cutting Tea Party lunatics, and the advisors behind Romney. It's really pretty simple, it's all about increasing the cash flow to military contractors and the return to Republicans in campaign contributions. Remember that the military is the largest segment of our budget, bigger than all of the other militaries in the world combined, and the ticking time bomb for health care for injured vets in the last two wars dwarves the pension shortfall that you and mrgybe are moaning about. Let's look at the record. Romney is backed by Norquist, the Cato Institute, the Defending Defense Coalition, etc., which all want to increase defense spending. That's right, despite the "stay on message" nonsense, the program is about increasing defense spending. Same as it ever was. The advisors in question? Robert Kagan, John Bolton, Robert Joseph (the man who got Bush to lie about enriched uranium from Niger to justify the war in Iraq), and Eric Edelman and Dan Senor. The neocons are back, and they want to bomb Iran, stay in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and dabble some more in Africa. Keep America the military power assuring security of all raw materials.

The Tea Party's role in this was to add elements to the military budget that the military didn't want. Why? Contractors want them. Conservatives seem to like the market--except where they can give cost plus contracts, without bidding, to military contractors in their district.

So excuse me if I have a healthy skepticism for the claims of fiscal conservatism from the far right. And Virginia is a the head of the line at the trough, $56 billion in 2009, $11 billion in 2008. Do you think that they are more worried about that than what it actually takes to deliver security? Follow the money.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1952

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote

Quote:
....and the ticking time bomb for health care for injured vets in the last two wars dwarves the pension shortfall that you and mrgybe are moaning about


Do you have a source for that? Are the war injuries going to top $1 Trillion dollars?

I have heard estimates that the ultimate costs of the wars could exceed the $3 trillion mark and maybe more.

Public pension shortfall for the states is somewhere north of $1 trillion. Federal and local pension obligations possibly more. Some estimates are $2.5 trillion in total short fall. Numbers vary with stock market projections and returns.

I agree that we need to develop some perspective. And, I agree that the conservative tilting at regulatory agencies as the source of our economic woes is not based in real math.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5261

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB--I quoted this originally with a source, somewhere on this forum. The estimates for health care for vets, based on the Vietnam and Korean wars, are that costs go up for 30 years, and total about three times the cost of the war initially. So $1 trillion up front, $3 trillion long term.

I fear that it will be worse; many are surviving that didn't survive previous wars, but gravely injured. We are discovering the true cost of traumatic brain injuries and shell shock, as it is currently defined, are much greater than we thought.

Rumsfeld and Obama are both right when they see that the security issues of the future involve small tactical forces (in relative terms). But Obama is a much better man.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14239

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
the conservative tilting at regulatory agencies as the source of our economic woes is not based in real math.


People whose careers and 7- to 11-figure fortunes, many of them household names, disagree with you every day, citing increasing known and unknown regulations as a primary reason this recovery is the worst in history. I'll go with their analysis, as they put their reputations -- including their faces and names and track records -- on the line.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1953
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As one who started as small business last year, I'll put my name on the fact that regulations were the least concern we had. Payroll, infrastructure, marketing and revenue created 95% of our focus. The remainder related to zoning issues, operating in an ocean turbulent flow zone and running a merry go round safely. Specificity and truth, not "unknown" regs should represent reality.
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