Sail Making Materials and Dimension Polyant

sailaero · Joined: 24 Jul 2001 Posts: 18

Hi Tombiz

I know very well the material you are talking about it was used in Aerotech sails in 2002 and 2003 and a few later trainer sails. This material was made by Dimension Polyant and has not been used for almost 10 years. I do agree with you that the material was less durable than current materials that is why we have not used it for a long time. We have been in the sail business since 1986 and have produced well over 20,000 sails. Some were not perfect and I would agree with you that the 2003 white material was not right. We have consistently been in the top 3 selling sails in the USA over the last 20 years and the only way to do that is with repeat customers. We are always striving to make our product better and constructive criticism is always welcome. It's great to come in contact with people who are all about making things better!

Sailboarder · Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 656

Thombiz,

I don't feel you were bashing Aerotech, mostlly bringing facts. But I felt reading your email that you are unfair to them by keeping the other company name with you.

What's more, it seems this material is sub-par quality wise. There is nothing wrong telling the community your opinion about this specific material and it's use in recent sails.

thombiz · Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 799 Location: Corpus Christi

As promised, I have pics:

For the record, I saw a variation of the white material 3 years ago on a new Rapid Fire one of the local sailors bought from the Sandy Point website. That material was NOT included in a new Rapid Fire purchased by a local sailor last summer. I was glad to see the upgrade because the Rapid Fire is a very good sail otherwise.

The left two materials are variations of the same materials that I often see which have unexplained catastrophic failures and/or premature non-impact failures. They come in various colors and string patterns but the end result is the same. Just look at the front and the back. If you can't see the strings equally well from both sides, you should avoid the sail and look elsewhere for the durability you seek.

jingebritsen · Joined: 21 Aug 2002 Posts: 3371

i've seen folks that seem to go out of their way to trash their own stuff. sometimes, it's from either rigging tensions are way to much or not nearly enough. others, it's getting worked in the impact zone.

seen some aerotechs last 15 years of heavy use. as steve said, once a feature is recognized to be a problem, it is removed.

i use stuff at a very high frequency, especially that phantom 7.5 technora. it got pumped, washed, sailed, and sun baked for at least 200 sessions. still, it looks pretty good. that sail has more technora in it's construction than any other sail on the market. i've rigged it on rdm's and sdm's. it behaves like 2 sails in one: go fast, with the sdm, and soft pumper with the rdm.

there have been plenty of other flaws in windsurfing sails over the years from a variety of brands. wish no one had any. this is not a nice thread. are we becoming like the rec.windsurfing? will this forum become a wasteland like that soon?

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

feuser · Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 1508

Thombiz - In the last few model years, KA's build quality has been nothing short of that of Simmer and Goya. I have never seen any of the problems you mentioned, but I only used their wave sails until last year and these were probably more heavily reinforced. I could use any sail I wish - I am not getting paid to represent a brand - but I prefer these sails and wish to support the people that make them.

thombiz · Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 799 Location: Corpus Christi

To say that this is not a nice thread and this will lead to a windsurfing wasteland is pure Polyana (Pollyanna) BULLSHIT and you know better. Everybody knows you're an Aerotech team rider and not a single one of us questions your dedication to the brand. You should consider that the use of substandard materials may be one of the reasons for a decline in windsurfing in the US.

Consider this, there aren't that many windsurfing dealerships in the US so most buyers plan their purchases based on what they see and read in the magazines, websites, and visual media. They save up their money and finally purchase what they perceive to be a sail which will give them years of valuable service. Second, third, fourth time out, they take a minor fall but instead of absorbing the fall, the sail lets loose in every direction, taking out 2-3-4 panels. No problem, just take it to the sail repair guy or gal just down the street. Uh, wait a minute, there is no sail repair guy there in Springfield, Mo. Matter of fact, there's no sail repair guy or gal for 500 miles! The new sail has just turned to trash and another windsurfer just became a mountain biker all so someone can make an extra $12 on a sail. The windsurfing industry has been good to you and you have given a lot of yourself in support of it. This time, you may want to consider the needs of the user ahead of the manufacturer.

This thread is not about Aerotech. I've given enough hints, capatilized enough words, used enough model names that most people know the brand I'm referring to. Ice down the beer and take a little time to consider the big picture. I hate bashing Aerotech. One of the materials Aerotech used for years, pentex is one of the best materials I've ever seen. In 16 years of repairing windsurfing sails, I've never even once needed to replace even a single panel of pentex. Not one! But that white crap they are so fond of does a disservice to the sport. For years, I've quietly warned others of sails with that product in it, hoping Aerotech would receive enough buyer complaints to stop using it. If that stuff really is a Dimension Polyant product, provide the product number right here in public and I'll order some to prove it came from DP and publicly retract my support of Dimension Polyant and issue a public apology . Steve should remember I have pics of much newer models of Aerotech sails with that very same material and I can easily and publicly counter his claim that Aerotech stopped using the material back in 2003. Tread carefully my friend.

Some manufacturers have taken the General Motors approach to business. They cheapen it a little here, a little there, until they produce a product like my brother-in-law's Chevy pickup. It was in the shop 47 times in 2 years to correct warranty problems. He dumped the Chevy, bought a Toyota and never looked back. Then GM filed for bankrupcy. Some buyers will dump their problem sail brands and never look back. They will buy Ezzy, Sailworks, Simmer, Goya, Hot Sails, Northwave, and World Sails. I don't make a dime from my endorcement of these manufacturers, and making better and more durable sails will lead to less business for me so its not about the money.