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Original windsurfer type fin , replacement ,or box insert
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3114
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:22 am    Post subject: Original windsurfer type fin , replacement ,or box insert Reply with quote

Sorry for the photo quality, this board is a Cooper Sirocco, 25lbs ?, very long 12' ish, old, not of much value , except a cruise now and again. The single rear fin has seen better days , it is a flex plastic.

It has its own base, similar to the original windsurfer and is secured by a screw, just one at the rear. It is 8" in length, the base is 5 1/2".

The replacements I found have 2 screws, and cost 45$.

Will a ProBox surf fin box adhere to the plastic surface if epoxied in ?

I would use my normal installation, router out then lay fiberglass and glue in.

The fin does not have a lot of area, and would probably go a little less length, and wider chord to achieve some area.

Thoughts ? It sails like it is, but will have some time this summer to re vamp it, but want LOW cost




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Brian_S



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 149
Location: SE Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't see the box well enough to guess at a fin, but there are surfing and SUP fins with a single rear screw.

RE the replacement, nothing will really stick to the polyethylene surface of the board very well - even epoxy.

If the box is the same as the original windsurfer, you might contact Ted Schweitzer: http://www.originalwindsurfer.com/site/index.html
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3114
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply.

the box , well it doesn't have one. The fin is held on by , going from memory a single screw at the back, the OW design I "believe " has a screw front and rear, from the fins I have seen.

I looked at epoxy for plastic and West System make , G Flex especially, don't know its effectiveness for this application.

I have never seen a surf fin or SUP like this, attaching via its own base.

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tstar



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With so many free or almost free old sailboards out there I would be going that route. That board does not look like it is worth the epoxy.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3114
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tstar wrote:
With so many free or almost free old sailboards out there I would be going that route. That board does not look like it is worth the epoxy.


it is my FIRST board , like a puppy it has a forever home.

I don't need it , and the fin exchange is a challenge.

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Brian_S



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 149
Location: SE Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2,

I checked the West Systems site and they do say that the Gflex bonds to polyethylene! I'm amazed and surprised and skeptical. I'll bet you have to scuff it up pretty good so that there's a 'mechanical' bite into the poly. If you try it, let us know.

RE the 'first board' comment, I understand that.

Brian
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6026

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I see it U2U2U2, I think you're best off leaving this relic as is, assuming that it's not broken. Is the board at home in Colorado, or is it in Maine at the cottage?

However, if you're really dedicated to re-finning the board, what I would do is make your own fin out of polyester/fiberglass material. That way you can craft the exact fin outline you want, to include custom foiling it the way you want. From the same sheet of material you can craft a base component to replicate the one you have now. Then all you have to do is use some roving and fiberglass to attach the fin to the base. Back in the 60s, before the introduction of cavity finboxes, we used to use roving and fiberglass to attach the fin to the bottom of our surfboards after the fiberglass lamination process.

If it might help, I can drop by the True Ames shop to see if Chuck has any leftover polyester/fiberglass panel lying around.
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dsgrntlxmply



Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note in the application guide for West G/flex, that flame treatment of the surface following sanding, gives greatly improved bond performance on polyethylene. Flame treatment is important when trying to bond to polyethylene and polypropylene: it oxidizes a thin surface layer and can greatly improve adhesion.

Another product: TAP Plastics Poly-Weld, is intended specifically for bonding to polyethylene. If I recall correctly, this also recommends flame treatment of the surface to be bonded.

I have not tried any of these on polyethylene, but I have used sanding followed by flame treatment, to get at least passable results with other adhesives in bonding to a weird material that is a mixture of polypropylene and recycled tire rubber.

It can also be useful to bond an intermediate layer of a more readily bondable thin sheet plastic like polycarbonate, to the (prepared) polyethylene with a specialty adhesive, then to bond the other object to the intermediate layer with a more common adhesive.

Whatever you decide, try it first on other scraps of similar materials (or on functionally irrelevant areas of the intended object), and be prepared for disappointment.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3114
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
As I see it U2U2U2, I think you're best off leaving this relic as is, assuming that it's not broken. Is the board at home in Colorado, or is it in Maine at the cottage?

However, if you're really dedicated to re-finning the board, what I would do is make your own fin out of polyester/fiberglass material. That way you can craft the exact fin outline you want, to include custom foiling it the way you want. From the same sheet of material you can craft a base component to replicate the one you have now. Then all you have to do is use some roving and fiberglass to attach the fin to the base. Back in the 60s, before the introduction of cavity finboxes, we used to use roving and fiberglass to attach the fin to the bottom of our surfboards after the fiberglass lamination process.

If it might help, I can drop by the True Ames shop to see if Chuck has any leftover polyester/fiberglass panel lying around.


yes in Maine. Chuck may have a thought or 2..?

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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3114
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsgrntlxmply wrote:
Note in the application guide for West G/flex, that flame treatment of the surface following sanding, gives greatly improved bond performance on polyethylene. Flame treatment is important when trying to bond to polyethylene and polypropylene: it oxidizes a thin surface layer and can greatly improve adhesion.

Another product: TAP Plastics Poly-Weld, is intended specifically for bonding to polyethylene. If I recall correctly, this also recommends flame treatment of the surface to be bonded.

I have not tried any of these on polyethylene, but I have used sanding followed by flame treatment, to get at least passable results with other adhesives in bonding to a weird material that is a mixture of polypropylene and recycled tire rubber.

It can also be useful to bond an intermediate layer of a more readily bondable thin sheet plastic like polycarbonate, to the (prepared) polyethylene with a specialty adhesive, then to bond the other object to the intermediate layer with a more common adhesive.

Whatever you decide, try it first on other scraps of similar materials (or on functionally irrelevant areas of the intended object), and be prepared for disappointment.


Thanks, I have not read the guide in its entirety, but have plenty of flame producing gadgets.


Sounds to me now a replacement of some sort may the best way to go, rather than install a box.

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