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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4112

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference is that when the Trade Center went down, millions of muslims celebrated in the streets. I have yet to see the Christians celebrate just one murder.

This happens over and over again in the middle east.

You haters should stop your bigotry against the religions that founded our nation. Judaism and Christianity. (yes there were jewish and black founders too) It has given you all so much that you scoff at.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2644

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
No, I don't believe he's mad, it's all too easy to write off such actions that way. His defence will no doubt plead so, but I hope the court won't wear it.

Was Hitler, or Stalin, or Bin Laden mad? Were all the religious zealots of the Spanish Inquisition who tortured people to death mad? In our enlightened times it may seem so, but I don't buy it!

Obsession , religious or extreme right wing, can tip over into action easily. Nothing that we hear of this chaps past indicates madness, and he didn't just 'snap'. There was too much planning and method involved for that to be believed.

I sympathize with your disgust at the convenient use of the insanity defense to rationalize heinous acts.....we should certainly treat any such attempt in this case with appropriate suspicion. I'll leave the psychologists to attach a diagnosis to the state of his mind, however, the ability to conceive and execute a careful plan is not the exclusive domain of those in command of their faculties. The dispassionate slaughtering of 76 children in cold blood, coupled with the seeming total lack of remorse, do not suggest a rational being............unless one subscribes to the notion of pure evil..........a difficult concept for an atheist?
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1344

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps derangement would be a better term to use Mr G. I DO believe that humans are capable of evil, it's the oldest theme in the book. (Cain and Abel, not to mention Shakespeare.) Himmler and his cohorts were all sane enough when they set about exterminating the Jewish race. This chap, presumably, was acting on similar reasoning.

Derangement may become insanity when taken to extremes but the legal definition of insanity used to be that a person didn't know right from wrong, and couldn't understand the consequences of their actions. I would think he knew only too well! (Don't Islamic suicide bombers also know full well what they are doing? )

I think an atheist can more easily allow an acceptance of evil as part of human makeup, though the bible does warn believers that it can exist. The fact that many of the perpetrators are either socially inadequate, or have a long standing grudge against society, seems to be a recurring factor in such behaviour. Others, turn destructiveness upon themselves by means of drugs or alcohol, sometimes even self harming. They may be deranged or inadequate in some way, but insane? No.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2644

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that the perpetrator convinced himself that his actions were not wrong.........indeed, that they were necessary and noble. It seems that he knew that he would be caught and punished, possibly killed. Does that make him insane, deranged, a bit out of sorts? I don't know. My amateur psychology skills don't extend that far. I do know that he should never walk free again. I suspect that, regardless of length his sentence, his fellow inmates and those charged with overseeing him, will make sure that he doesn't.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1344

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paper today.

'Anders Breivik is evil, not insane, intelligence chiefs said yesterday. The mass killer is undergoing psychiatric tests at a prison which was a Nazi concentration camp during the second world war.

He is being kept in isolation on suicide watch, with a full evaluation of his mental state likely to take up to three months.

Breitvik has been described as 'insane' by his own lawyer, but Norways domestic intelligence chief Janne Kristiansen told the B.B.C. she believes he is calculating, evil, and sought the limelight.'

A relief to see common sense still exists in an otherwise upside down world!
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3353

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"You haters should stop your bigotry against the religions that founded our nation. Judaism and Christianity. (yes there were jewish and black founders too) It has given you all so much that you scoff at."
I agree completely and have been a person of faith as long as I remember.I have not seen this bigotry expressed here but it would be deplorable. Could you quote this for us?
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