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Windsurf-SUP crossovers - any reviews?
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3-phase



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 481

PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A cool board it is surfing the wave like surfboard, can plan like a windsurf board and paddles halfway comfortable the Sealion (you need to be good in paddle) or Sealion XL (easy to paddle).

http://www.vimeo.com/9578709 there is some cool videos in youtube and Vimeo check for Sealion and Sealion XL


Aloha

Jurg
www.kasail.com
www.ahd-boards.com
www.windsurfdeal.com some videos
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laci



Joined: 22 May 1996
Posts: 163
Location: SoCal&the Gorge

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been experimenting with this issue for years, and have tried several boards. My old Mistral Pacifico was actually the best compromise for both SUP and sailing, in a production board. They still offer a Pacifico Wave, but I have no experience with that. Last year I had a custom short SUP built with a modified rocker to make it plane better. As an 8'10" SUP it is very manueverable on a wave and does not seem compromised at all. When used as a windsurfer it will get up on a plane and move right along. It doesn't plane as early as it's size and width would imply, and turns are long and drawn out. As a light air windsurfer it is definetly a compromise. For non planeing surf sailing it works well, but so do most SUPs.
After all that I have learned that there really is no such thing as a one board quiver, an all arounder will never be as good at any discipline as a board that is specifically designed for that discipline. The convenience of only carrying one board instead of two balances that out, if that is your priority.
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andrewc



Joined: 30 Jun 1997
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see the attraction of the one board for all things but dont fall for the windsurfing industry's line that any of these sailing SUP's are the ultimate light wind wave sailing board. A 100-120L FSW board with a 6.5-7.0 is much better.
A FSW will pop-up ( or can be pumped) onto the plane in very light winds and of course as soon as you get on a wave there is no contest.
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sergedca



Joined: 30 Mar 2000
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trick is to figure out what matters to you more and what matters to you less. There are boards out there the fall in all areas of the SUP crossover spectrum (from “good windsurfer but bad paddler” to “good paddler but bad windsurfer”). The thing is, you may not know what matters to you the most until you start doing it and experiment. So expect to be changing boards a few times until you figure out what you prefer and then find that board that work best for that part of the spectrum. So I recommend either buying used or buying something that is known to have a good resale value…

So first, it's is a lot of fun to wave sail in light wind on a SUP. Since you’re not trying to plane, you can use a smaller and lighter sail/boom/mast (most of the time I use a 5.3 wave sail; I weigh 155lbs). You will not be making sharp bottom turns and sharp top turns, or jumping, but it’s still fun. Waves, even small, are powerful things and are challenging to master since no two waves are alike.

Note that although flat water SUP paddling “looks cool”, it’s pretty boring (it’s similar to canoeing or kayaking). If you have high adrenaline threshold (takes a lot to get your adrenaline flowing – usually the case for high-wind windsurfers), you may find it boring too. Same thing for flat water light wind windsurfing for that matter, once you have gone fast on a windsurfing board, going slow is boring…

I have spent a lot of time trying to identify the best compromise board out there for what matters to ME the most; which is: paddle surfing in small waves first, then very light wind wave sailing in small waves. (Note that I also have 2 high-wind windsurfing boards and a regular surfboard).

So I’ve gone from a first generation Mistral Pacifico (it planned well with a sail, but lacked responsiveness and rocker for surfing anything but a slow 1-2 foot wave). So after mastering the SUP basics, I sold it. Since planning ability does not matter very much for me, I got a Starboard 11’-2” (“blend”) to get more rocker, but I didn’t go too short, to keep that feeling of glide – I don’t enjoy schlogging on a short board. Note that I don’t use my SUP in larger waves (I use a regular surfboard), and I don’t use my SUP in stronger wind (I use either a 110 or 95L windsurf board).

The SB 11’-2” is a nice all around SUP/windsurfer crossover board. Works good in flat water and in waves. But due to it's size, it's a little stiff when steered only with the toes and heel (i.e. without a paddle), but not too bad with a paddle, because you can use the paddle to help it turn. It's also nearly imposibble to plane on it - just too much drag due to the tail rocker (but not a big deal for me).

I have also owned a 9'0" SUP without mast base insert, and found that it lacked the glide necessary to get on a wave early, so I sold it.

So I’ve recently pulled the trigger and ordered a new SB 10’-5” (“drive”), in hope to get a little bit more looseness/responsiveness in the waves, while still getting good sub-planning glide, and that longboard feel (think nose rides) useful on small waves, along with the ability to go/stay upwind (you can dig the long windward rail to help prevent slipping). I think it will work nicely for me (for a while at least...)

I hope this will help a bit. I could write for hours on the topic.. Wink There are so many boards out there and each has a slightly different design, you can spend (waste?) hours analyzing them, and you will probably not be entirely satisfied anyway, so get one and start doing it. Good luck!
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windward1



Joined: 18 Jun 2000
Posts: 673

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:22 pm    Post subject: My 2 cents worth Reply with quote

I agree with a lot of what Sergedca said and have this to add: note that even though he was 'close' with one board he has already gone through another and getting even another. It is difficult to get by with one board. It just is.

Also, I understand what he is saying about a 100 to 110 liter FSW board for light wind and waves, but do not fully agree. A lot of times the better waves are point break waves, and in central California, that usually means a cliff at the point which blocks the wind inside. Some places I sail can be blowing 20 knots outside and 3 knots where I want to kick out of the wave. For this situation I want some flotation. Plus I weigh 190 lbs so that is different than Sergedca by quite a bit as well.

So for 20 knots plus days I sail a 91L JP FSW. For 14 to 20 knots and waves, I sail either a Bic Techno or a Kona Surf. For 5 to 14 knots and waves, I sail an AHD Sea Lion as Jurg suggested. For 0 to 5 knots I SUP the Sea Lion.

There is some overlap, the ranges are not cast in stone, and like I said, 20 knots may be 3 to 20 knots.

The extra floatation of the big boards lets me tack or jibe, depending on kelp around and whether I want to stay upwind while awaiting a set wave. I need to manuever around a lot of kelp so have changed to weed fins for the Bic and the Kona. The Sea Lion's twin fins shed kelp pretty well as they were, so they are the originals. The extra floatation also lets me uphaul in the light winds inside.

Anyway, I wanted to make the case for some floatation when wave riding in light winds and the sailing SUPs provide that.

Windward1

P.S. Sorry Sergedca, I seeit was AndrewC who said a FSW with a big sail was better for wave sailing than a SUP. I read the two posts as if they were together as one. I guess I agree with all that you said.
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esteban



Joined: 21 May 2000
Posts: 222

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone tried the the Thommen T-1 SUP/windsurf board? Straps and a nice looking shape but can't find too much info on it.... Looks like a nice one!
The RRD Wassups work great for crossover but I haven't got one in waves yet
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lizardhill



Joined: 01 May 1996
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the 12'6" Big Easy from Starboard, and have sailed it quite bit. 10 meter sail, 10 kts, no straps, sub planing. Mondos, Ventura County. This is a BLAST! It is a bit of a log in the surf, so I bought a Whopper. It is a bit small for me, 260 lbs. Better in the surf than the Big Easy, but less forgiving paddling. Great with a large wave sail in two foot mush!
No board will do it all and you will not windsurf in the sense that a shortboard and a powerful crossover or slalom sail will. In Southern California
I rarely leave the house without an SUP even if it looks windy as I always want something to do on the water.
OOPS, its blowing 20 at LEO gotta go!
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bil7y



Joined: 17 Dec 2002
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Kona Reply with quote

A HUGE VOTE FOR THE KONA (now exocet) 11'5". I have SUP'd it in Triple Overhead (needs a smaller fin than the stock one) and then after the wind kicked up switched the fins put on the straps and headed back out. It rips in both configurations. I actually prefer it to many dedicated SUP's and it windsurfs extremely well. I am a smaller guy at 160 and could probably get away with the 10'6 but just love the 11'5. I honestly tell people this board changed my life. The drawback is the extra weight but thats a bonus when the wind is making for choppy SUP conditions or big wave riding where extra weight is needed. I have tried a few other hybrids and all seemed like compromises. The kona is also extrememly well made. I have had mine for over 4 years and beaten it sensless and it comes back for more. They say don't jump it but I have jumped it endlessly. Sorry to ramble on but the board just rocks.

David
www.waterhound.com
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loosescrew



Joined: 28 May 2001
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demoed a ton of SUP's with the conversion for a sail. I am lightweight, however, the Starboard Stinger was by far the best out of the bunch. It really depends on what you are looking for in a SUP. The Starboard with a quad fin setup will rip on a wave. No need for a big sail, ever, when you are sail SUPing. Total misconception of what its all about. Good luck and enjoy.
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goinoff



Joined: 01 Feb 1998
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Naish Nalu 11'4" and it works well in the surf but is a bit of a dog windsurfing..I think it needs a longer fin for windsurfing and is hard to keep upwind. There was also a tendency for the screw in mast base to work its way out of the board mount. I think what is key is having the right fin when you want to use it to windsurf...
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