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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
boggsman1 wrote:
Its a net negative.
Dont tolerate blind faith, figure things out for yourself.


Boggsy, You should get out of your comfortable San Fransisco cocoon occasionally, and visit some places where there are greater challenges than finding the nearest Starbucks. Try a brief vacation in DR Congo, or Malawi or Ethiopia..........I think when you see the thousands of people lining up every day to be fed, you may change your mind. Those who diminish the efforts, sacrifices and life saving achievements of the volunteers in countries such as these, by pointing to centuries old failings or fringe viewpoints, should do the same...........they will be ashamed.

Those are the postives,and volunteering time and money can be achieved wothout a religious affiliation, see: The Gates Foundation. IMO, the negatives are bigger than the positives, hence the term "NET negative". Community and family are also positive, 20,000 people chanting in the Astrodome would be a negative. For the record, I prefer Peets to Starbucks, its a Bay Area company.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1925

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boggsman wrote

Quote:
For the record, I prefer Peets to Starbucks, its a Bay Area company.


Sometimes that cup of Peet's is a religious experience!
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2609

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
I am sorry that mrgybe feels this view lacks perspective.


Where you appear to lack perspective is in equating the actions of Muslim extremists with those of Christian extremists. There is little comparison. Neither does there appear to be any comparison between the good works of Christian organizations and those of Muslim organizations. How many large scale Christian aid organizations can you list? How many Muslim equivalents? While statements of the obvious on religious extremism may enable a momentary puffing of the chest in self righteous indignation, they give no sense of relative threat or benefit.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5763

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ever notice that Catholic nuns look much like Muslim women in the Arab world?

Women hidden for religious reasons. Sadly, far more in the Arab world. Moving into the future though, the Arab world has the choice between the medieval and modern worlds. Are they able to think out of the box, and allow freedom for women? Foolish to continue squandering half their strength for primitive religious and related cultural beliefs.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1925

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe

You can cut and paste my posts to make your point. But, in the context of this current discussion, and those in the past on this subject, that has not been my belief or my position.

I have asked you in the past if you approved of the politicians using religion to rile up their base. You declined to answer. So, let me rephrase it...

Do you think it is right for the Republican candidates and leaders to encourage (or at least look the other way) this "Muslims are bad" dialogue for political gain? Keep in mind, please, that a recent Pugh poll indicated that 50% of Republicans think Obama is a Muslim.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont discourage Mr G from cutting and pasting... after windsurfing and squash, its his favorite sport.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2609

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
mrgybe

You can cut and paste my posts to make your point. But, in the context of this current discussion, and those in the past on this subject, that has not been my belief or my position.

I have asked you in the past if you approved of the politicians using religion to rile up their base. You declined to answer. So, let me rephrase it...

Do you think it is right for the Republican candidates and leaders to encourage (or at least look the other way) this "Muslims are bad" dialogue for political gain? Keep in mind, please, that a recent Pugh poll indicated that 50% of Republicans think Obama is a Muslim.


Since you seem to enjoy seeing the entire text of your posts on more than one occasion, here is an unabridged version of your latest offering in all its glory (incidentally, the inclusion of the entire text of your previous post would have made no difference to my response or to the way it was perceived).

Your question is too broad to answer...........if you can provide me with an example of a Republican politician stating that Muslims are bad, I will opine.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5129

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't you pursuaded by comments like:

Quote:
Where you appear to lack perspective is in equating the actions of Muslim extremists with those of Christian extremists. There is little comparison. Neither does there appear to be any comparison between the good works of Christian organizations and those of Muslim organizations. How many large scale Christian aid organizations can you list? How many Muslim equivalents? While statements of the obvious on religious extremism may enable a momentary puffing of the chest in self righteous indignation, they give no sense of relative threat or benefit.


From the man who knows more, had a more interesting life, has had more authority, and is in particular an authority on Catholicism and all other religions. It is too bad that mrgybe didn't study statistics and correlation. I would suggest that there is a relationship between the lack of a comprehensive education and the successful prosletizing of an extreme religion, whether a Muslim sect like Wahabi, and a fundamentalist Christian sect in the United States. What aspects of one's behavior come out of ones culture, what come out of ones religion, and what comes out of hope or despair? Hard to tease apart, even with good data. Some, like Huntington who remains one of the brightest intellects on the subject relate the re-growth of fundamentalism in Muslim and Christian religions to alienation from the older traditions. He traces increasing religious fervor in Muslims that have gotten higher education and moved to an urban area to the loss of their ties to their family and tribe. Others trace the rise of sects like Wahabi in Pakistan and Afghanistan (exported from Saudi Arabia by people with a political agenda who are well off) to the near complete illiteracy. Others trace violence to the remnants of tribal societies that can readily define non-members of their tribe as "others."--as has been done to Obama in this country. Relative wealth, relative literacy, the percentage of the population that is yound and underlying cultures all play a role in the levels of violence in a society. All of those factors have been simplified out of relevance by those who have all the answers because they've been everywhere and were in charge.

I've heard nothing as profound on this forum as what I read today from a fifth grader. In his essay this young African American student argued effectively against banning video games, showing that violence in this country has gone down while video sales have gone up. He said that he thinks that whether or not you are violent has mostly to do with how you've been treated.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1925

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an example
The announcer at a McCain rally..."Barack HUSSEIN Obama".
McCain asks "Who is this Barack Obama?" ...audience member "terrorist!" McCain smiles.
Ever listen to Huckabee tap dance around this topic? Or Palin?

We are fighting two wars in Muslim nations. Is this not using religion as political propaganda?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2609

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
Here is an example
The announcer at a McCain rally..."Barack HUSSEIN Obama".
McCain asks "Who is this Barack Obama?" ...audience member "terrorist!" McCain smiles.
Ever listen to Huckabee tap dance around this topic? Or Palin?

If that is the most egregious example you can find or bring to mind, it seems to reinforce my point about perspective and equivalency. A politician on the campaign trail failing to condemn a stupid comment from a crowd of supporters is hardly in the same league as filming the beheading of a helpless captive, or blowing up a bus full of women and children, or running three aircraft into landmark buildings.

coboardhead wrote:
We are fighting two wars in Muslim nations. Is this not using religion as political propaganda?

I guess we are actually fighting wars in three Muslim nations........if you are suggesting that we are doing so with some religious motivation, I disagree.
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