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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2450

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
My point is "Catholic" is a "good" word and "Muslim" is a "bad" word in the minds of many.


Apparently not on this Forum!
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1849

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:

Quote:
My point is "Catholic" is a "good" word and "Muslim" is a "bad" word in the minds of many.


mrgybe responded

Quote:
Apparently not on this Forum!


Yes, it goes both ways.

Discrimination on the basis of religious belief or hatred because of religious belief is wrong. That said, criticism of the actions taken in the name of a religion by it's followers is not. Those that hide behind their religion and cast stones at others are fair game. Those that hide behind their religion to perform acts of malice are despicable.

I think most of us would agree.

So, I question why we let some our leaders use religion to fire up their political base. I question why some in politics turn a blind eye (and some encourage) prejudices based on religion.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5481

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The millions of sick and impoverished people whose lives have been improved by a multitude of caring religious organizations, would probably beg to differ."

Or we can look at the dark side over time, to see how folks forcing their religious ideas on others destroyed whole societies. History isn't always pretty.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3035

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no question about the good done by religions all over the world. It is used for bad as well usually by governments using its power.This is one of the main reasons our ancestors left Europe.
Nowadays it seems appealing to put followers of Jesus in pol offices where you now see folks who seem not so honest. That how Europe got in a mess hundreds of years ago. Soon the same crooked as!@oles became church leaders instead and settled back into their old jobs.
Did you notice every member of Congress found Jesus on the same day as George Bush?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2450

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
Its a net negative.
Dont tolerate blind faith, figure things out for yourself.


Boggsy, You should get out of your comfortable San Fransisco cocoon occasionally, and visit some places where there are greater challenges than finding the nearest Starbucks. Try a brief vacation in DR Congo, or Malawi or Ethiopia..........I think when you see the thousands of people lining up every day to be fed, you may change your mind. Those who diminish the efforts, sacrifices and life saving achievements of the volunteers in countries such as these, by pointing to centuries old failings or fringe viewpoints, should do the same...........they will be ashamed.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4678

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe said:
Quote:
The millions of sick and impoverished people whose lives have been improved by a multitude of caring religious organizations, would probably beg to differ.


While this is true, sometimes that care comes with strings attached. The same could equally be said about a multitude of non-governmental organizations--such as Madre or Doctors Without Borders--that provide the same services without the sermons. I don't think anyone here has objected to charitable acts, the objection is to imposition of religious views or value judgements, good and bad, made solely on the basis of religious affiliation.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1849

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrgybe

I refuse to give a free pass to those that use religion as a basis for hatred or discrimination because some of their fellow believers are charitible. I refuse to ignore the history of how religion has been used to control or conquer.

I recognize the value many get from their religion. To each his own.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2450

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all have our own prejudices as you so forcefully demonstrate. Some, however, have the benefit of perspective.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1849

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote

Quote:
We all have our own prejudices as you so forcefully demonstrate. Some, however, have the benefit of perspective.


As a Catholic altar boy, I told my Mom that our Priest was drunk during Mass. Us kids had been covering for him for quite a while. My Mom told me to "Never say anything bad about a Priest".

My Mom was not a religious zealot. Years later, she confided that she understood how the abuses in the Church could occur. Folks just can't believe that their religious leaders can do wrong.

So, yes, I probably am predjudiced. I do judge people, based on extreme religious views. I have little respect for folks who practice a religion that diminishes the value of women, rejects proven scientific theory and requires blind faith in the rhetoric of their leaders. I have little respect for those that use their religious authority to foster discrimination or hatred against other religions.

It it is the responsibility of all of us to be vigilant to prevent religions, or governments, from overstepping their boundaries and jeopardizing our freedom to practice our own religions.

Islam extremists would like to see us destroyed. Christian leaders that promote this "holy war" are likely to cause other Muslims to join that effort. Those that prey on this hatred for political gain are shameless.

All that said, I will fight any laws, policies or tyrants that would seek to prevent those from practicing their religions.

I am sorry that mrgybe feels this view lacks perspective.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3035

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well spoke
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