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A simple parable for the Wisconsin news
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3699
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
swchandler wrote:
.....but I think his karma will ultimately come back and haunt him for the choices he made to serve greedy corporate interests. If you sign up with the devil, there will always be that day of reckoning.


Apparently, that day has arrived..........good old Jeff Immelt

"Some corporate embarrassment today for President Obama.

The chairman of the President's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness -- also the CEO of a billion-dollar company -- paid no corporate taxes in 2010."

The massive losses the GE Cap unit suffered in 2008, 2009 allowed for this 2010 tax situation. But , hey, if we've gotten to the point where were demonizing the General, lets get the pitchforks out and just end capitalism....we're all populists now!
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matty, you've got to turn that junk off..just read the FT, and watch Bloomberg news. The talk show circuit on FBN is terrible.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
The massive losses the GE Cap unit suffered in 2008, 2009 allowed for this 2010 tax situation. But , hey, if we've gotten to the point where were demonizing the General, lets get the pitchforks out and just end capitalism....we're all populists now!


You are completely correct......GE has the right, indeed, the obligation, to take advantage of every tax deduction available to it........I'm sure you feel the same way about oil companies (although I don't recall you being quite so quick to leap to their defense). GE also has the right to lobby for government actions that will benefit its shareholders. However, I think many people are uncomfortable with the cozy relationship Immelt has with the President and the uncanny alignment of GE's activities with the current administration's policies.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5471

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matty said:
Quote:
I agree with you on corporate , and wall street greed, us little guys are getting screwed. John Stossel had a great special on last night called Freeloaders, I think you would have liked the show. But some tax breaks for business are unavoidable if you want companies to stay in your state


Well I almost agree with everything you said. But do you remember that it was the Republicans who tried to block any reform of Wall Street Practices, and blocked any increase on capital gains taxation, and are now blocking the confirmation of the head of the Consumer Agency?

You are right that sometimes tax subsidies make sense, to keep businesses that are generating a lot of jobs--and thus payroll taxes-- and to jump start businesses that make sense. Do you think that is the case for 2/3 of the Wisconsin businesses? Or do you think a little research would show that Republicans handed out tax breaks to companies that offshored jobs? Mrgybe wants to make much of the character issues of businessmen appointed by Obama--after the Republicans screamed about the lack of business-friendly people in the Administration. Who do you think sponsored the majority of the tax loopholes that GE took advantage of? Do you think any of those loopholes provided American jobs? Do you think any Republicans have voted against a tax break for business in the last four years?

The real situation is that Republicans automatically vote for tax decreases, either as a matter of ideology or to pay off campaign debts. I haven't seen any evidence that they actually do any research to see if those cuts will be offset by gains in payroll taxes. dems also pay off campaign debts that way--so businesses get most of the cookies. The real tragedy is that the system is set up to pit state against state, city against city--and let businesses transfer many of the true costs of their businesses--to the general public.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tax breaks? Off-shoring? Successful lobbying? A case study..........


NEW DELHI: Indian companies received a bad news from US President Barack Obama on Wednesday, when, in his first address to the Congress, he said that there will be no tax breaks to companies that outsource jobs. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-02-25/international-business/28045379_1_outsource-jobs-congress-obama-software-companies

Our Indian friends need not have worried........!!

The results of GE’s tight relationship with the Obama administration are starting to show. Last year, the company paid nothing to the government. Instead, the government paid GE $3.2 billion in tax breaks. “Its extraordinary success is based on an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore,” according to The Times. Some combination of aggressive lobbying for green energy tax incentives — for which the administration had pushed aggressively in the Recovery Act and in President Obama’s budgets to Congress over the last two year — and strategies run out of its in-house tax department have made GE one of the leading companies in reducing its corporate tax burden.
When Immelt was named the chairman of Obama’s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness in January, he acknowledged that his company has a reputation for running most of its business overseas, the result of more than three decades of reducing its domestic operations to minimize costs.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0311/taxes_no_thanks_0a7c88dd-3ce8-493b-8075-e7afe71934da.html


As a GE shareholder I am delighted............although "innovative accounting" always worries me (Enron anyone?). However, as a voter, I am confused.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. G. I have no allegiance to GE or to Oil companies, any legal maneuver is fine with me. I am amused at the perception that GE is in Obama's back pocket. Its a gigantic company with tentacles in many businesses and continents. If alternative energy takes off, you can be assured, that Immelt and co. with be there.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14470

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
GE has the right, indeed, the obligation, to take advantage of every tax deduction available to it ... GE also has the right to lobby for government actions that will benefit its shareholders. However, I think many people are uncomfortable with the cozy relationship Immelt has with the President and the uncanny alignment of GE's activities with the current administration's policies.


Certainly any taxpayer has every right -- and a public corporation has an obligation -- to legally minimize its taxes. But buying loopholes by using its wholly-owned propaganda machine NBC/MSNBC to help sway a national election should be prosecutable.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
I am amused at the perception that GE is in Obama's back pocket. Its a gigantic company with tentacles in many businesses and continents.


.......and a few words from Immelt, the President's buddy, can move all those tentacles whichever way he wants.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The noblest motive is the public good." Virgil

It shouldn't be quite so hard for conservatives to remember this quote when they wonder what motivates teachers. It certainly isn't money, but it is the hope of seeing those they teach reach their full potential. Americans used to care about that.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2407

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:

It shouldn't be quite so hard for conservatives to remember this quote when they wonder what motivates teachers. It certainly isn't money


All they see is what you can get, not what you can give, and assume everyone else feels the same. As my dad used to say..."you don't see the world the way it is, you see it the way you are"

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