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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1849

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the end of Carter,s term the interest rates were dropping. In addition debt vs gdp dropped during his term, government employees dropped.

I had a 14 % mortgage; but that was 1984 Reagan.

Hard to be a success when Ted Kennedy has mobilized your own party against you.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1889
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanWeiss wrote:
mat-ty wrote:
Hey Dan
I wish I had a nickel everytime I have heard the term, lame duck session used in the last three weeks, even the moron obama used it the other day. Stupid me!!


Touche'



Well, that was my original reaction but, on further reflection, I remembered that you used lame duck to refer to President Obama whereas you now employ it to refer to the remaining days of this Congressional Session.

So, I forgive your failed memory as much as I forgive my own. But you are still incorrect as to your application of "lame duck" to the remaining two years of President Obama's First Term. A change in majority of one of the houses of Congress does not make for a lame duck presidency, any more than the 1994 election created a lame duck residency for Clinton's then-remaining 6 years.


Last edited by DanWeiss on Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3328
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

8 feet of new Pow Pow at Squaw since Friday. I love Cali!
30kts mast high at Waddel all Spring Long-check
25-35 all Summer Long at Crissy -check
Epic Mountain Biking in Downieville all Fall-check
8 feet of Pow Pow for Turkey day at Squaw-check
R U kidding me? Is this place for real?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4654

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is ironic that mrgybe would label Jimmy Carter the worst President of all time, citing a number of economic factors outside of his control, and missing the critical nature of his shortcomings, or the Iran hostage crisis which was one of the causes of his downfall. Another example of sterling research and memory by the gybster. Perhaps mrgybe is so enamored of the right wing government in Israel that he resents Carter's indictment of their behavior.

The Iran hostage crisis began on November 4, 1979, and went on for 444 days. The inability of the Carter Administration to secure the release of the hostages was probably the greatest cause of public dissatisfaction with Carter. But it is unwise to miss the run-up and aftermath of the crisis. For a fascinating history of the nearly complete failures of the CIA, read “Legacy of Ashes”. The tampering in other countries, including Iran, was a major cause in the Iran Crisis. As those who remember well know, the Iranian students who seized the hostages sought the extradition of the Shah, who had been installed in a US engineered coup. It’s called blowback, and it is still going on, not just in Iran.

The aftermath of the Hostage Crisis was the Reagan Administration’s multiple crimes in greenlighting the selling of drugs in South America to sell arms to the Iran contras, in violation of the law. Here’s askinfo’s take on that sorry exercise, which makes Ronnie my candidate for the most criminally inept President of all time. As I recall, Ronnie authorized crimes and lied about it, and Clinton lied about a blow job. For the life of me, I cannot see how the senile bastard is seen as a hero.

Quote:
Despite the strong opposition of the Reagan administration, the Democratic-controlled Congress enacted legislation, known as the Boland amendments, that prohibited the Defense Dept., the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or any other government agency from providing military aid to the contras from Dec., 1983, to Sept., 1985. The Reagan administration circumvented these limitations by using the National Security Council (NSC), which was not explicitly covered by the law, to supervise covert military aid to the contras. Under Robert McFarlane (1983–85) and John Poindexter (1985–86) the NSC raised private and foreign funds for the contras. This operation was directed by NSC staffer Marine Lt. Col. Oliver North. McFarlane and North were also the central figures in the plan to secretly ship arms to Iran despite a U.S. trade and arms embargo.
In early Nov., 1986, the scandal broke when reports in Lebanese newspapers forced the Reagan administration to disclose the arms deals. Poindexter resigned before the end of the month; North was fired. Select congressional committees held joint hearings, and in Dec., 1986, Lawrence E. Walsh was named as special prosecutor to investigate the affair. Higher administration officials, particularly Reagan, Vice President Bush, and William J. Casey (former director of the CIA, who died in May, 1987), were implicated in some testimony, but the extent of their involvement remained unclear. North said he believed Reagan was largely aware of the secret arrangement, and the independent prosecutor's report (1994) said that Reagan and Bush had some knowledge of the affair or its coverup. Reagan and Bush both claimed to have been uninformed about the details of the affair, and no evidence was found to link them to any crime. A presidential commission was critical of the NSC, while congressional hearings uncovered a web of official deception, mismanagement, and illegality.
A number of criminal convictions resulted, including those of McFarlane, North, and Poindexter, but North's and Poindexter's were vacated on appeal because of immunity agreements with the Senate concerning their testimony. Former State Dept. and CIA officials pleaded guilty in 1991 to withholding information about the contra aid from Congress, and Caspar Weinberger, defense secretary under Reagan, was charged (1992) with the same offense. In 1992 then-president Bush pardoned Weinberger and other officials who had been indicted or convicted for withholding information on or obstructing investigation of the affair. The Iran-contra affair raised serious questions about the nature and scope of congressional oversight of foreign affairs and the limits of the executive branch.
See B. Woodward, Veil (1987); T. Draper, A Very Thin Line (1991).

Now I would agree with mrgybe that Jimmy Carter was a terrible President, but for reasons he doesn’t cite. Jimmy was an engineer and a micromanager. One of my friends was a Marine who worked for the Assistant Secretary during the Carter Administration. His character-revealing story about Carter involves Carter keeping the schedule himself for the White House tennis courts. Some things should be delegated, right? Like high crimes and torture by Reagan and Bush?
Mrgybe is also perhaps one sided in his indictment of Carter on the economy. Inflation was rampant when Carter was elected, and Volcker attacked it by forcing a recession. We can debate whether that was wise, and Volcker’s career has a lot to criticize. But I would characterize Jimmy Carter as the nation’s unluckiest President. While he saw some of the issues that still face us, he lacked the leadership ability to galvanize action. Nothing he did matches the crimes of Reagan, Nixon, and Bush. See http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-carterreagan.htm for an account of the economic factors.


Read more: Iran-contra affair — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0825447.html#ixzz1686AhqZL
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1033

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan you win, how about USELESS QUACK!!! instead of lame duck
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5460

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you mac on this. I'm glad you brought many things to light.

One thing that the Carter Administration brought home was a peace agreement between Egypt and Israel. A damn big accomplishment in my mind. I seriously doubt that any US president in recent times can claim such a clear success like that in the Middle East.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1033

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about libya, Bush and some credit to Clinton.

http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2004/0123middleeast_leverett.aspx
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1889
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
Dan you win, how about USELESS QUACK!!! instead of lame duck


Thank you. And if it feels good to you, I won't mind if you call the President names. I certainly offered my share wrt George W. We are entitled to our opinions, after all.
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1033

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boggsman
you must have had a senior moment, you forgot to mention Giants win WS,
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3614

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
8 feet of new Pow Pow at Squaw since Friday. I love Cali!
30kts mast high at Waddel all Spring Long-check
25-35 all Summer Long at Crissy -check
Epic Mountain Biking in Downieville all Fall-check
8 feet of Pow Pow for Turkey day at Squaw-check
R U kidding me? Is this place for real?


Yes, One of my all-time best days was skiing at Wrightwood in the morning, leaving at 1pm arriving home at 3 pm and sailing 2 hours in logo high 4.5 conditions at county line, all on the same spring day.

WHAT A LIFE!
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