myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Windsurfing Videos Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Quad fin Waveboards Worth the Hype?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Southwest USA, Hawaii, Mexico
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
edscott



Joined: 27 Mar 1994
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hamiltor wrote:
reply to chop hop: Quad goes upwind as well or better than my single fin wave boards. Slogs better because you can use larger volume board without sacrificing smaller board performance. Bottom shape is much flatter overall with significant less "V" which makes it a rougher ride in chop. For a pure cross over board that i would enjoy at Crissy, Sherman, and Waddell I'd stick with a single fin wave board. If i was primarily sailing Waddell I'd definitely go with the quad. Lee D's comments notwithstanding, pretty easy to sense the difference in these boards. Whether that is purely a function of the quad fin set up or the bottom shape the quad fin set up allows is probably arguable. I spend almost all my time in the waves, and am very impressed and happy with my quad. Hope that helps and recommend a demo as well to see if it fits your sailing style.


I got the Quatro 85. Yep, points like a mofo, better than a single fin imho. Equally loose dtl if you ask me, but still breaking mine in. Will bust loose very easy if you get the tail out of the water like on a top turn just a bit b/c the fins are so small. A little slower to plane.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1011

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A huge big THANKS to all who replied here.....
Some background here..... me. I was one of the first shapers in NorCal back around '68 using twins, tris, and multi finned surfboards. I read about "twinzer" tech around '79, and started shaping those to find a bigger sweetspot than twins of the time. Having worked at WiseSurfboards, I ordered all the availible (to us) quads on the market, from Brewers thru Lindens, Bessells, Rusty's, LocoMo's, and a few others to check performance and shapes. By the earliest '80's, I was convinced quads were the call for high performance surfing in small, lined up waves which give direction and distance. Singles still prevailed in shifty beach breaks.
Windsurfing. Now we're applying quads to windsurf wave riding, NOT flat water performance at Crissy, Gorge, or any bay or river!
All you who have ridden quads on DTL waves KNOW it's advantages...as you have said.
You also know it's NOT the call for flat water sailing, and that includes Ft.Point under the gate. That is not wave riding, it's swell riding downwind in onshore (at the waves) wind performance. That needs a mixture of speed, pure upwind, quick turning, and SOME DTL performance.
Quads are best used in DTL waves, like SanCarlos, like Jerri, like 'yards, like Hookipa, like Davs, like Palo, like low tide Lim, but NOT the best for Wads, Scotts, OB, Stinson, or any coast spot with side or component's of side on and shifty beach breaks that include backwash, strong sideshore currents, or mixed direction performance. Singles handle that all around stuff better, because of less drag when all fins are engaged.
It's great some of you have ridden quads in the correct conditions, but I doubt the original poster is thinking ONLY of wave riding performance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mikecole



Joined: 21 Sep 2000
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've sailed the 2010 SB quads in 71, 76 and 81. I ended up buying the 81 to replace my Evo 83. So comparing the Q81 to the Evo 83: The Q81 is a better bottom turner for me, I can really commit to the turn without fear of bouncing out and/or fin cavitation and I can get closer to squared-up even in more side-on winds where you don't go so deep to start the turn. The Q81 will go upwind at a slightly better angle. The Q81 has more high wind sail range, i've sailed the Q81 with a 4.2m and I would never do that with the Evo83.

The Evo is faster, planes up a tad sooner, climbs over white water a little better and wants to do a more drawn out turn that the Q81.

Lastly, for me the Q81 came over-finned. I am going to 13's front and 11's rear and with SB it's a pain in the ass because they use mini-tuttle front for 2010 and now for 2011 they are using something new called "slot-box". I think the quattro boards are using standard a-base boxes? The 2010 SB quads could be had in "convertables" so for B&J you would have a single fin option. Something to think about if your sailing bay and waves...

I'm a lightweight @ 150lbs so the Q81 is my light air board and my wave riding skills are intermediate at best.

Hope this helps with your decision... Mike
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SWE106



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 263
Location: San Mateo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here my five cents for what it is worth. A quick summary to better understand where I come from once you read my comments

1) I sail from 3RD to mast high waddell and dport, with the occasional flatwater c'stick session and 2-week trips in spring to maui where I sail from 'keeps to kanaha.
2) I do both freestyle and waves
3) I now only have 2 quad boards: 85L and 95L 2011 Quatro's.
4) I've had quatro production quads since April this year
5) Before quads I had only twins

The reason I only have 2 quads now is because A) the boards are pretty much superior in all conditions (except true flatwater [freestyle] where single fin freestyle boards offer better pop, -slide, -spin and flotation. B) I can't afford (but also don't need or want) specialized boards such as true freestyle boards. C) I neither have the space for it (but again also don't need it). Let me explain:

I've never had a board(type) that could do all of these conditions equally well, while of course truly shining in the waves. I therefore, respectfully, disagree with "LeeD" (quoted), as quads (at least the quatros as that's what I ride and I can therefore not evaluate any other board brand), RIP at 3rd like conditions. Please see my video of 2 days at 3rd channel on my 2010 85L Q on an ebb and 4.7 days this summer to proof my point: http://vimeo.com/12545168

I've never had a (wave) board that allowed me to windsurf 3rd ave channel the way I can do now. Not on my older single fin FSW boards, not on my more recent twins (although getting close). No, only my quads finally allow me to have full grip on the face of (sometimes 8ft) rollers, screaming down them, popping freestyle moves in the trough, going full speed back up, bust the top etc, all with full grip, full power, full control, full speed. No spin outs, no hick ups, no nothing (all of which you will more easily suffer from on a single fin board under such conditions). The modern shape (flatter rocker, spoon shape, compact outline) allow for great pop for jumps and insane control in the air and landing (not until I had my quads did I start to nail backloops in the channel on a more regular basis, as my video shows). Single fin wave board will not give you that same package of control, traction, jump power etc. Anybody who argues that quads don't work in such conditions, such as 3rd offers, or at the least thinks they are not as good as single fins, arguably has a thing or two to learn about modern quads.

In addition, I LOVE my Quads at waddell, as I do at Dport. Both places require different sailing techniques. Due to the set-up, W is -in my opinion- more focused on the cut back and D on the bottom turn. Twin fins already allowed me/the windsurfer to stay much closer to/on the wave, with a more vertical style. Quads keep on giving that, but with more speed, drive and control. At waddell the quads stay very well on the wave and have allowed me to really improve my aerials. No other board design has allowed me to do that. Cutbacks are not as "hacky" as the twin, more well-rounded, more speed, more controlled. Don't get me wrong, you can still bust the tail out very nicely and go into takas etc, but it's with more control than on a twin, and way easier than on a single. At D, the quads give insane speed in the bottom turn, allowing to quickly use a smaller sail size than on other board types.

In general, quads go upwind better than singles. For example, being 210lbs wet; on my 95Q and 5.7 I am now able to stay upwind equally compared to many of 50-60lbs lighter sailors on single fins, allowing to catch more waves than before. AND once on the wave, in such light-wind conditions I can still ride the wave like I am powered up on a 5.3 and single fin, since the board has way more drive and go. Also, due to the flatter rocker, the board is also still fast, and yes therefore in chop, feels kinda stiff and bumpy. (There are always trade offs...).

In fully powered conditions, the quads are still easy to control and project where you want them, allowing also great transitioning between back- and front foot riding. If you think you'd miss that lip, just stomp the back foot and your quad will get you there in control! On a single it is much harder to do that, on a twin you may, but the control was sometimes less. The boards do get overpowered quicker, but you can simply go a sail sizes smaller (which is nice) and you're in full control again. If most are on a 5.6/5.7 and a single fin, I guarantee you can be on a 5.3, with equal wind range. Now who doesn't want that?

Quads allow you to ride bigger boards (add at least +5L to go from a single to Quad, e.g. a 85L quad is like a 80L single. Don't go from 80L single to 80L quad, then you miss all the quad advantages...). You will therefore have the added advantage of an increased range in the low end windspeeds, and still have the same high-end, allowing improved slogging, quicker planing, easier to get out through the white water. AND, once on the wave, the board will actually feel smaller than your old single, since it turns more precise with more/easier control.

So, anything negative about quads? Not really, according to me, besides being more bumpy in chop, and not as good in real flatwater like freestyle boards. If you change from a single to a quad remember that you'll kinda go from crawling (single) to running (quad), without the (required) walking (twin). You will need to adept your sailing style somewhat, since Quads do ride a little different. You ride the rail different, more like a twin and you'll ride the wave different too (not as drawn out like a single, more on the wave). This may take some time to adjust to. I sum up the difference like this:

S: 2 hits on a wave, with lots of speed
T: 4 hits on a wave, more vertical, less speed
Q: 3 hits on a wave, with the speed of S and the vertical style of the T

Finally, quads are no gimmicks or marketing tricks. That's BS and, I think, a slap in the face to some of the world's best shapers and pro-riders who have devoted a life long career to get the best shapes possible. These boards are an evolution, not a sales trick. As somebody wrote here: why not demo one, but be prepared to buy one then too, since you don't want to ride anything else afterwards. Also, pros will of course continue to have all types of boards in their quiver, but that's for the simple reason that they are pros and need specialized boards that give them the competitive edge under very specific type of (world cup) conditions they may encounter. So don't just go follow them blindly, but assess your own sailing style and needs carefully. Also, single fins are all of a sudden not bad boards. Again, it's more the shape than anything else that determines a board's performance. Sticking 4 fins on your old single or even twin fin, doesn't make it a good quad, simply because the (old) board shape doesn't match the (modern) fin set up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1011

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can really believe it, it is true for you. Cool Cool
NONE of us can ever wavesail as well as the better guys of the late '80's. If we could, we'd be the best guys out there TODAY!
So basically, those guys from the '80's, using '80's gear, surfsailed better than we can today using our current newest gear. NO, they do not surfsail better than the best guys nowadays. But we are not even close to that level.
Believe it, it's true.
Can the newest hyped boards make US perform better than our older boards? Of course, a newer board gives you the stoke and desire to sail better.
If you believe in it, it is true.....for you.
However, anyone else watching you sail might just say you sail just the same Shocked Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14163

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SWE106 wrote:
So, anything negative about quads? Not really, according to me, besides being more bumpy in chop


Isn't that more dependent on hull shape and construction than on fin count and configuration? The only quad I've ridden is ultra-smooth on chop, but it's shaped for the Gorge and built of polyester.

Mike \m/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gerritt



Joined: 06 May 1998
Posts: 415
Location: Redwood City, CA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arinie reps Quads and may come off as biased. Whereas, I don't rep anything and am not paid for my comments.

I agree with everything he has to say about the Quatro quads, not having ridden another brand, except for one thing:

I do not find them stiff or bumpy in bay conditions and in fact find they stay very well planted and in control. Of course I have the 75 and only ride it on the bay on a 4.7 or less. Smaller boards are generally in better control in larger bay chop and swell. However, my old wave board was really no fun on the bay as the rocker was just too much. The flatter rocker of the quads translates to very fast and early planning for flat water and waves. They are also very easy to slow down when wave or swell riding. And, of course, the speed is always there when you need it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
insh8bl



Joined: 08 Aug 2005
Posts: 181
Location: San Francisco, CA & Coconut Cove, Maui HI

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also concur with SWE106 assessment of quads 100% and I have no vested interest in any particular company. For me Quads work just fine at Crissy and to answer Boogs question; it works great in big ebb outside the bridge, although, this season those days have been few and far between. A 4.2 works fine on the larger (83 or 85L) boards, but if I am sailing at a venue where you step right into the wind (Maui or Gorge) I would run a size smaller board in those wind conditions. For me Quads are a hell of a lot of fun, which is what I go windsurfing for. Very Happy

Last edited by insh8bl on Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SWE106



Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 263
Location: San Mateo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gerritt wrote:
Arnie reps Quads and may come off as biased. Whereas, I don't rep anything and am not paid for my comments.


With all due respect, Gerrit is a true hardcore ripper, but I need to clarify that I am NOT a Quatro rep. I am only a national team rider. I don't sell, don't promote, I don't get paid (to the contrary I pay for my gear!), I have no incentives, no nothing. I just ride for them. So my bias, if any, is pretty limited and I try to inform others about what I -objectively- think about these boards.

As for Isobars comment: yes that, to a large extend, has to do with board shape besides nr of fins. But, remember, that with 4 fins also comes a different shape. And, as I said, I've only been riding quatros so I can't comment on other brands' shapes. Though from what I've seen they look rather identical to Quatro's Quads, again and of course because the shape has to facilitate the fin set up.

Also, I should have mentioned that the bumpyness in chop only occurs when it's 4.7 or smaller. Most guys are then on 4.2s... so pretty windy. But, it's still very manageable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
edscott



Joined: 27 Mar 1994
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikecole wrote:
Lastly, for me the Q81 came over-finned. I am going to 13's front and 11's rear and with SB it's a pain in the ass because they use mini-tuttle front for 2010 and now for 2011 they are using something new called "slot-box". I think the quattro boards are using standard a-base boxes? The 2010 SB quads could be had in "convertables" so for B&J you would have a single fin option. Something to think about if your sailing bay and waves...


The production Quatros and 2010 Starboards both have mini-tuttles on them. The Quatro has A-box on the inner (bigger) fins. If you get a custom Quatro, you can specify A-box all-around. Big difference between the 2 boards is that the little fins are on the outside on the Quatro, and they're on the inside on the Starboard. Also, the big fins on the Starboard are mounted using a allen bolt which comes in at an angle from the side.

My understanding of the 2011 Starboards is that ALL the finboxes on those boards will be a slot which also uses allen bolts which come in at an angle from the side to hold the fin in place. They can accommodate A or FCS style fins, but you might have to cut the front of the A-box fins off b/c standard fins will likely be too long for the finbox.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Southwest USA, Hawaii, Mexico All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 2 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group