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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4164
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 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Isobars,
I have tried all sorts of variations to the "Old School weights", but always come back because it works for me. I do occasionally do slow movement weights with fewer reps, but not to the extreme you suggest.
When I get close to muscle failure, either because of the amount of weight or number of reps, I risk injury, so I back off a bit and stop before I get there. Muscle failure due to reps is less risky and I do push that to some extent with push ups and a few other exercises.
My workouts vary with the windsurfing season. When I am not sailing often, I do weights on average about 2 to 3 times a week,but only once a week when I am sailing more often (sailing 2-3 times a week).
When I do work out, I do a full body workout, alternating between upper and lower body with two sets each with only enough rest to get to the next machine. I don't sit on a machine or bench resting and talking or texting on a cell like most guys in the gym, I am always moving and as a result, keep my heart rate up for most of the workout. Workouts last about 70 minutes.
Since I have strained muscles dozens and dozens of times over the decades, I have found that about 10 minutes of warm up and stretching prevents injuries in the weight room. I probably don't do enough before sailing, but always do some. I am nursing a small strain today after sailing yesterday on my formula board and 11.0. I pulled a sub-scapular muscle that I have strained many times. I failed to streatch my back (fully extended arms, reaching forward and holding on to my van bumper while squatting and leaning back). I felt the pull as I beach started on my first outing, reaching high and stepping on to the board in a gust of wind.
Aerobic work (jogging, StairMaster, treadmill) is not very regular. If I am getting ready for a 5K race or hiking trip, the aerobic work picks up.
When I play golf (about 40 times a year), I always walk with a three wheel cart.
I am trying to keep up with my father's example - he lived to be 97 and was physically active until the end. He hiked to the bottom of the Grand Canyon and back out when he was 88. He also climbed Mt. Whitney 14 times. |
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Mulekick84
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 407
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I now walk into the gym, warm up for 4-5 minutes, spend < two minutes performing each of 5 exercises with no spotter and virtually no risk of injury, and I’ve done more for my muscles and cardiovascular system than the rest of those poor saps -- including myself until recently -- can do in 10-15 hours of heroic huffing and puffing throughout a whole week in the gym. My next step is to see whether I can duplicate this on my Bowflex system at home. |
You think you get a Cardio workout in 10 minutes, once a week??? Where do you come up with this crap?? |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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I did all that, too, except that my non-stop gym routine of weights, Nautilus, plyometrics, aerobic and anaerobic elliptical cardio intervals, Pilates, extended whole-body endurance work on cables, and swimming took 5-6 continuous hours. Now that research has shown the vast majority of that, including pre-exercise stretching, to be not only unnecessary but in many ways self-defeating, I'm looking forward to cutting my workout time from about 15 hours a week to well under an hour, with superior results in every regard and less chance of injury.
Mike \m/ |
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elenna
Joined: 30 Apr 1998
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | I did all that, too, except that my non-stop gym routine of weights, Nautilus, plyometrics, aerobic and anaerobic elliptical cardio intervals, Pilates, extended whole-body endurance work on cables, and swimming took 5-6 continuous hours. Now that research has shown the vast majority of that, including pre-exercise stretching, to be not only unnecessary but in many ways self-defeating, I'm looking forward to cutting my workout time from about 15 hours a week to well under an hour, with superior results in every regard and less chance of injury.
Mike \m/ |
While I believe that lifting heavier for shorter periods has benefits for older men (over 40) because we lose muscle mass each year and lifting heavier for short periods builds it, I'm doubtful that the level of strength I've achieved via endurance and strength training can be equaled in a 10 min workout. I'm sure that you can reach levels of intensity that burn significant calories, i.e. run two 5 min miles, but sustaining that level of intensity over time is not realistic.
Still what you're doing makes a lot of sense and I'll be incorporating this into my strength training strategy. It will help me be more competitive and it feel right. No science, but sometimes a concept like this just makes sense. But to keep the weight down and build endurance, I still think I need to keep the heart rate up for more than 40 min, at least 3 times a week. But that's me.
Also, you gave me some shoulder advice that I've been following, post rotator cuff, surgery that has help me recover faster and get back on the water. Sometimes you sift through all the BS on the internet and come up with some gems. Thanks
Eric |
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windtrip
Joined: 09 Oct 1992
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:47 am Post subject: Yoga vs. weights |
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Thanks everyone for all the great advice here. I've never had this problem but I'm hoping to prevent it.
I've been experimenting with various forms of moving yoga (vinyasa, power yoga) and found that it uses a wide range of upper body muscles. It's also great for balance and stretching. Seems to be a very effective use of my limited gym time.
Does anyone use yoga to keep in shape for windsurfing? If you do a lot of yoga and you push your arms in class can it be a replacement for weight training? How does it fit into your workouts?
Would be great to here what folks have to share on this. |
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gkl7
Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:22 pm Post subject: torn ACL |
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Did anyone have to deal with a torn ACL? I had my knee surgery on April 7th and according to the doctor it'll be at least 6 months before I can return to windsurfing.
I'm doing physical therapy for at least another month but would like to hear from other people who had similar problems. |
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PeconicPuffin
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1830
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Yoga vs. weights |
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| windtrip wrote: | I've been experimenting with various forms of moving yoga (vinyasa, power yoga) and found that it uses a wide range of upper body muscles. It's also great for balance and stretching. Seems to be a very effective use of my limited gym time.
Does anyone use yoga to keep in shape for windsurfing? If you do a lot of yoga and you push your arms in class can it be a replacement for weight training? How does it fit into your workouts? |
If you're using yoga to deal with rotator cuff issues, I'd strongly recommend Iyengar yoga, which emphasizes alignment and form. Alignment is everything with RC excercises, and you can easily aggravate a shoulder with less than dialed in poses. Downward Dog and RC injuries do not mix.
_________________
Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| elenna wrote: | 1. While I believe that lifting heavier for shorter periods has benefits for older men (over 40) because we lose muscle mass each year and lifting heavier for short periods builds it,
2. I'm doubtful that the level of strength I've achieved via endurance and strength training can be equaled in a 10 min workout.
3. I'm sure that you can reach levels of intensity that burn significant calories, i.e. run two 5 min miles, but sustaining that level of intensity over time is not realistic.
4. No science, but sometimes a concept like this just makes sense. But to keep the weight down and build endurance, I still think I need to keep the heart rate up for more than 40 min, at least 3 times a week. But that's me.
Also, you gave me some shoulder advice that I've been following, post rotator cuff, surgery that has help me recover faster and get back on the water. Sometimes you sift through all the BS on the internet and come up with some gems. Thanks |
Glad to be of service, and I hope this more modern exercise science I’m seeing more and more about every week isn’t BS. I doubt it; the research is still growing rapidly even though it’s been used by many of the world’s most elite athletes for decades. Old habits, like 3 sets of 10 reps and/or endless miles of cardio, die hard.
1. You’re presuming this approach uses heavier weights, as did the old competitive bodybuilder’s paradigm of pumping massive iron for 2 reps to failure (2RM amount of iron) times many sets for each targeted muscle. I saw Johnny Carson ask Arnold how that felt … how he could keep it up for hours and years. Arnold’s answer was straightforward: Simple; each lift feels better than coming. (I was surprised that wasn’t bleeped 30 years ago.)
Now THERE’S a reason to pump iron.
But this approach uses lighter weights (it has to; not even a young Arnold could sustain a 2RM weight for three to four 20-second reps), so it’s safer for any age group. The benefits, compared to old-school iron and cardio, include much greater strength, aerobic and anaerobic gains, lower risk of injury, and the prolonged recovery time (i.e., time saved for the other things we want to do), which is at the very least 7 days; many athletes need weeks.
2. You could be right, but the research, from clinical studies to Olympic and professional sports records, say otherwise.
3. That’s the whole point; the research shows that prolonged cardio is passe. Heck, if aerobic and anaerobic endurance and/or fat loss, rather than bulk, is one’s primary goal, a few 4-minute Tabata Protocol (Google it) workouts each week beat prolonged cardio by a long ways. Those 4 minutes (<three minutes of exercise plus > 1 minute of heaving for air, sometimes followed by dry heaving) rev up your metabolism to the point that your 24-hr calorie burn exceeds that produced by hours of cardio. The drawback: few people have the will power required for a proper four-minute Tabata workout. 10 hours of powered-up B&J sailing in head-high terrain requires less motivation and is less likely to induce vomiting.
4. Au countraire; it’s pure science. Your and my preconceptions are being blown away by research and results.
If a person’s objective is pumping iron and cranking out the miles, both of which many people enjoy, those won’t do much harm in moderation beyond the occasional overtraining slump, stress fracture, muscle sprain or tear, and/or taking a great deal of time away from the rest of his endeavors such as career or watching American Idol. If, however, the objective is aerobic and anaerobic cardiovascular fitness, strength, burning off excess fat, and/or recreational or professional athletic performance, with a 90% reduction in time and drudgery as a bonus, the time spent reading about modern exercise science will be invaluable. The most convincing book I’ve read on that topic is “Body by Science”.
Two groups of exercisers I feel most sorry for are 1) the grimacing joggers I see on the sidewalks or treadmills every day who very obviously hate every step but think prolonged cardio is the best or even only way to lose excess weight or develop cardiovascular health and 2) the legions of motivated but misled hausfraus and desk jockeys on the Nautilus machines or weights flailing out 10 easy reps. sitting there for a couple of minutes, flailing out 10 more easy reps, sitting there for a couple of minutes, flailing out 10 more easy reps, checking off a block on their clipboard, and trudging off to the next station to flail out 10 easy reps. etc., then driving back to the gym the next day and grinding out an hour of BORRRRRRING, ssslllloooooowwwww miles on a cardio machine, as they stare into space or read People Magazine or watch MSNBC or ogle the anorexic teenager’s fine ass at 100 RPM in the row in front of them. Just think: they would benefit much more in every measurable way from 4 minutes of Tabatas a few days a week than they do from the dozen hours they spend in and driving to the gym. I sorta miss my hour-long sessions at 90-108% of my theoretical maximum heart rate at 60-150 RPM on the ellipticals or cable weights to some great music, but those 4-minute Tabatas wear me out more and produce greater benefits.
Mike \m/ |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Yoga vs. weights |
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| windtrip wrote: | | Does anyone use yoga to keep in shape for windsurfing? If you do a lot of yoga and you push your arms in class can it be a replacement for weight training? How does it fit into your workouts? |
The research and books I've seen rate Yoga WAY down the priority list for physical conditioning and UP the list for injury potential. Probably our biggest hurdle for using the gym for sports training is that unless the gym work perfectly duplicates the motions, range of motions, speed and power of motions, and effort profile of the sport, the only transferable benefit that shows up on the performance chart is cardiovascular.
Anecdotally, I tried a Yoga class for a few weeks. I found it a good cure for my insomnia. I quit when our instructor asked us one day, "Well, does everyone feel nice and relaxed now?" 'Scuse me, lady, but I get my daily relaxation in bed overnight; the gym's purpose is to fry my butt to the point I stagger out the door and still feel it the next day. The takes me 6-8 hours of non-stop old-school workouts or a few minutes of new-school effort.
Mike \m/ |
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elenna
Joined: 30 Apr 1998
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Tabata Protocol, very interesting Mike. Thanks for the tip, I'm going to mix this into my workout plan and adapt it to a triathlon.
What is very interesting to me is that these high intensity workouts will actually improve VO2 max over a shorter period of time than steady state workouts and achieve the same level of fitness. Although, interval training has always been part of my regime, it has not been at this high a level for very short periods. I usually do longer intervals at less intensity over a period of 30 - 45 mins. I'll let you know the results, I have a race coming up in August and can compare this to last years performance.
Eric |
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