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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3525

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am down with both you guys.
Bard was the first guy to make me understand why the banks should have been allowed to fail, though perhaps only one at a time.
I have made short bets on the market. I agree that they are not the way to a more productive society.They suck money resources out of the system needed for growth, same as taxes.
One thing that confuses me in all this is the fact that wasted tax money is a big job creator.The US spends more than 70% of its tax revenue on employees. Anyone who has been in a DMV office knows that a lot of them should find other jobs. Wasting our tax money keeps these Americans employed.The smaller, more productive government I want so badly will gain most of its savings by firing the clones and drones. That would cause a lot of unemployment to be paid out and an economic hit to the USA from hundreds of thousands of jobs lost at Americas largest employer.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5969

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never worked for the government, at the federal, state or local level, and frankly, I don't see the government to be a growing source for jobs in the future.

Needless to say though, that doesn't mean that honest and productive work can't be an outgrowth of the government's responsibilities. We all know that police, fire personal and many other less publicized civil employees are greatly needed to fulfill important goals, particularly on the local level.

Ideally, jobs will be about strength, particularly in local communities. Innovation can happen anywhere, and it's important to remember that. The high tech firm that I worked for in Santa Barbara for over 30 years was engaged in very broad reaching projects far beyond the local level.

Where is the growth and power of our new future, and how might we leverage that?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4315

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Hey Bard, let's get serious and focus on a huge part of the problem in our economy today and fix it for good. Let's ban hedge funds and all shorting activities, as we all know that there's no innovation and honest jobs associated with gaming the system in that way. After that, investors will invest in building a real future that is related to making, building and growing things, especially jobs. If investors lose, it will be because those business interests didn't pan out in the real world, and nobody makes a dime betting on failure. If one invests in success, they will profit appropriately for the risk they take.

Let's get rid of the parasites that boldly bleed our economy by praying on the failure of our economy. Are you with me on this?


Well, very interesting unison. I am generally against mega-big anything, especially government. Mega-big government seems to love mega-big corporations, because they can bully them, and eventually control them. If the fdic had allowed a slow and orderly sale and liquidation of the banks, trillions of dollars would have flowed into the economy from creditors and vulture funds.

As for naked shorts, I agree, but shorting allows a company to insure against a catostrophic collapse in their particular commodity. This then allows farmers to produce more so they plant more without fear of collapsing prices. This keeps food prices low.

But yes, let's get rid of the parasites in both government and mega-corporations. We can all agree that Obama, and BP are fucking up our ocean.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5477

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now let me see if I get this right. Reagan and James Watt oversaw the great era of getting oil leases out, while the market was saturated and prices would be low. Of course those were public lands. And Reagan, Bush I and Bush II made sure that the Minerals Management Service regulations weren't too strong, and fought the state's in court when they tried to do something about safety. And now it is Obama's fault? And you wonder, babbling bard, why we think you are ignorant? Try reading. Start with simple books, but work your way up to history. I was there for much of this you idiot.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4315

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac, itis easy to see the kind of person you are by your insults.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3704
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard , you are clueless. Really. ...let the FDIC arrange an orderly wind down of the banks , and let the vulture funds pick up the slack? U kidding? if you were sitting at my desk during the week of sept 15th, 2008, after the Reserve Fund broke the buck you would know there was NO way in hell an ordinary liquidation of the banks was possible. BTW, where do you think the vulture funds get their money? JC Flowers,, biggest financial PE firm in world, borrows 10-1 from JPMorgan when he takes over a bank. You're in over your head when the subject gets serious.
Obama ruining our oceans , ha ha. Im coming down to Malibu get a toke of what you're hitting at Zuma.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3525

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One the other hand, I have the idea such things are very complex and you understand them better than me. Why would they wind down?Wouldn't many banks that had a profit in their future be bought by another large outfit-financial or not- based on their assets and earning power? I sold several small businesses.I got the most for the one with few assets because it could make money.
Some vulture outfits for sure, but don't they often buy, paint rosy, and sell?
Out in the street here would we mainly see a change in the sign over the building and then the same old same old minus a few non profit making policies?
An outsider like me hasn't seen anything else in the numerous failures of large institutions in my life. It was bad for the players but the guy in the street just saw the names and players change.
If a bank can make money aren't there buyers out there, though they rarely have the stockholders best interest in mind.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4315

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boggs, Since I have an MBA, hire real men to produce real things, and don't push paper like you do, the real world is where I live.

Frankly, my greatest hope was that Bush and Obama would have let all the money changers sink. Then guys like me could have bought them out for 20 cents on the dollar, (like the 90s) and made them work.

What Obama is doing is a total cluster fuck. You'll probably get it after the fact, when all these phony assets collapse. Sept 08 should have put the financiers in the streets, and allowed innovators to rebuild America.

Instead, it's the same old shit. Too bad......don't be angry, your guy is in baby.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3704
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard, I manage rich people's money, they appreciate it. MBA, or not, the 90's was small potatoes compared to Sept 2008. Lehman went tapioca, the Reserve Fund fell, and the whole bank system was on the verge, there werent enough strong hands to pick up the slack, and the vultures rely on the bank system to fund the reallocation, which was insolvent. I'm do live in the real world, I know its not Zuma, buts its real, and I work for the world's healthiest bank, a company that saved your ass by buying WaMu!
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