Race sails are not as maneuverable as B&J or freerides or waves, and it's often necessary to swerve without notice to catch a ramp head-on.
Mike \m/
I'm serious about passing this rig on, not so much sailing it myself. Unfortunately for you who have dedicated so much to the obsolete arts and technologies of your prime, I've been reminded, often by those much younger than I, that if you want to jump today, you take up kiting. :lol: Whatever, we all know your narrow opinion about camber inducers, Mike, (being a purist at heart) and it's hoped that mythical lurker will take this with a grain of salt. As a footnote, women do more reading than men and aren't all that interested in technical writing in spite of the fact that they can be more knowledgeable regarding them. If these forums have lurkers (and if the hit counts on the non-technical writing indicates anything, it has many), they will be people who aren't all that interested in this subject matter. I could write up an article regarding the 14 wild turkeys that have been hanging around my property for the last month and that might attract lurkers, but the benefits of old equipment to do tricks probably won't.
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Last edited by sailingjoe on Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:29 am; edited 3 times in total
I'm serious about passing this rig on, not so much sailing it myself.
In that case, I'll give you a serious answer. Man, you got to TELL us when you're actually seeking information, rather than just stirring up a pot of Sybil Soup.
If there's any jumping advantage to having the mast track forward of today's standards, I'm not aware of it. What matters more is "pop", which I presume depends more on the tail width, which in general favors late model boards.
Larger fin areas also help pop, but I believe, right or wrong, that for beginning jumpers the extra area should come more from chord length than overall fin length, to reduce the ankle-threatening torques of landing with the board pointing significantly away from the flight path (high angle of attack, AOA). Once a jumper can consistently land with zero or very low AOA -- and presuming he wants to (I often want to land "sideways") -- the extra speed of high-aspect-ratio (i.e., blade) fins probably outweighs the AOA issue. Spinouts upon landing will be the judge of progress in that area.
While a race sail may help an advanced sailor achieve more speed if he's pushing its wind range, may not hinder his swerve to meet the ramp head-on, and may aid loft due to its more stable foil, I don't know whether it will help a beginning jumper overall. I'd guess its warts may outweigh any advantages at that stage in the learning process. I'd rig to maximize the day's pleasure, and learn to jump on whatever type of sail I most enjoy sailing. It's more important to HAVE plenty of speed when nailing a ramp than in how we GET that speed. i.e., At this stage, being well powered matters more than what hardware got us the speed. At a bit more advanced stage, a higher COE may help, which might favor any sail with that characteristic, whether through design (e.g. a Hucker), age (e.g., an old sail with limited upper leech twist), or tuning (less downhaul, extra outhaul, and using the top clew grommet.)
A beginning jumper's mast is going to whack the board nose often due to clumsy, unbalanced landings; maybe a glass board can survive the hits better, especially if it has a Clark foam blank. However, many novice jumps are in reality just chop hops, in which the loft comes more from the rider jerking his feet up. In the latter case, light weight helps. That favors epoxy, which invites damage, which favors nose and/or mast padding until he's farther up the learning curve.
Oh, yes; if this new jumper is hesitant about altitude and/or crashes, have him strap on a helmet and flotation vest. There's nothing like armor to eradicate fear. Let's confine the challenge to physics and technique by removing the psychological barriers. I'm amazed how few aspiring loopers refuse this shortcut; it could be argued that one bud split his sternum into two pieces because he refused to wear his helmet (he bailed mid-loop; maybe a helmet would have given him the courage to hang in there).
The rest is technique, and the web's full of jumping tutorials.
I could write up an article regarding the 14 wild turkeys that have been hanging around my property for the last month and that might attract lurkers, but the benefits of old equipment to do tricks probably won't.
Brucie, here's a list of your lurking turkeys. Sorry that it's a few more than 14:
Well, Mr Secretary, this one is actually quite amusing. Plus the American Turkey is a noble bird, well known for toughness, adaptability, and courage. Famously almost our national bird, the favorite of Ben Franklin rather than the carrion eating Bald Eagle. I take it as a mark of honor.
Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 190 Location: Portland / Gorge
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject: Jumping construction materials
Man,, where are you from? I'm all for recycling but that "Kit" you put together wouldn't get hauled off if it was in the Free Pile, at any of the swaps around here.
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Jumping construction materials
westender wrote:
Man,, where are you from? I'm all for recycling but that "Kit" you put together wouldn't get hauled off if it was in the Free Pile, at any of the swaps around here.
Are you saying that the $25 I spent on the board, sail, fin and two Windsurfing Hawaii Gorilla base/extentions, all in good to mint condition, was a waste of money? The question wasn't whether or not one could get it for free at some provincial swap meet, it was would it serve an aspiring jumper well. Moe, I did expect to see you come up with some cartoon regarding the Turkeys, but it's rather lame if you are attempting to lampoon me. I've been described many ways, but short and portly is not one of them. You could try James Joyce's Stately Plump, but that wouldn't be all that close. Did you know that the American Turkey is polygamous? There's a dominant male and his harem out there. The young are fully grown and finish off the group. Now let's see a decent work of art.
Isobars when it comes to >>"I think I do have a good fin for this set-up. However, your opinions regarding fins are always welcome. Trying to keep everything in the same general period, I have the pictured High Aspect fin (bought second hand, but unused) matched with it. However, I was wondering if that might be too small. "
and posted pictures of three fins.<< First, I posted two pictures, one of a single fin, another of that fin compared to another. Two fins. Second I was replying to a post by Bill of G-sport fins and stating that his opinions about fins are always welcome. However, I read this much of your rambling treatise
isobars wrote:
If there's any jumping advantage to having the mast track forward of today's standards, I'm not aware of it. What matters more is "pop", which I presume depends more on the tail width, which in general favors late model boards.
Mike \m/
The poster LeeD was adamant about the advantage of the mast track forward boards for jumping. Now, he may have been wrong, but he posted that he saw better jumping from others on the old boards than he does today. he also thought that he was a better jumper when he was using the older equipment and that was due to the nature of the equipment. "Air" Boyd did all his famous stunt jumping with it. "Pop" remains a subjective term and impossible to measure.
Joined: 02 Aug 2007 Posts: 190 Location: Portland / Gorge
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: I'm all misty
sailingjoe wrote:
Are you saying that the $25 I spent on the board, sail, fin and two Windsurfing Hawaii Gorilla base/extentions, all in good to mint condition, was a waste of money?
Free,, $25,, what's the diff?
WH Gorilla,,,,,,,,, Oh the memories. I think I need a tissue. All you need now is some screws to bolt that shit to the wall.
It's not bolted to a wall but I still get a lot of use out of my Dill Pivot fin. I look in the free pile for those.
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject: Gotta love the those Dills
westender wrote:
I still get a lot of use out of my Dill Pivot fin. I look in the free pile for those.
Dill Pivots and (IIRC, their immediate predecessor) O.B. Dills are great all-around B&J's.
I have both in a bunch of sizes. In my fin bag they compliment True Ames Teardrops for everyday SF Bay sailing.
Brought 1 personal fin to Maui this past August. It was an 8" Dill Pivot...it was pink and worked very well on an '08 JP Pro Wave 66. Just like it does at home. _________________ mo
Everyone has their opinion about old equipment. Most of them are narrow, stupid and ignorant ones. However, they aren't blocking anyone from publishing their stupid, opinionated and warped views on the internet.
Assuming that you are implying, westender, that I haven't sailed the old gear, let me tell you that I have and still do. In fact, I own three boards other than this one which are 15 years or older. One of them is a "glass" board with a mast track forward. I like the way it cuts through the chop hearabouts. This particular board about which I have started the thread is small for me, but I did try it once. It's mast track is further forward than any I have used. After sailing with late model equipment all summer, I really didn't like it all that much. I do have a high wind board which would serve me better if I ever do see high winds again. Nevertheless, I have had some great days on old boards. When I was in Florida a decade or more ago, I bought an old beat up Pro Tech glass board for $75 just to serve me for the few days I was there. I brought it back to Ma. and put it in the rafters. Years later I pulled it down and started sailing with it. Talk about getting your money's worth out of a piece of equipment. :lol: I loved that board and sailed it until I pulled the mast track out in the shore break on Buzzard's bay. The board that's the subject of this thread remains in much better shape than that one was when I bought it. In fact it hasn't been used much and the bottom colors are terrific. A department store window dresser would pay me $100 for it. The W.S. Hawaii bases make good beginner bases. You can't get much downhaul with them, but there's a good deal of safety built into them. Already, I have matched one with a board and beginner rigs (both adult and child). To finish, I worked in the ski industry for years. When I first started out as a salesman, an older wissened guy came in one Christmas season and asked me if I had any old Salomon 444's around. At that point they were on the verge of being declared obsolete and dangerous, but he explained to me the ins-and-outs of their failings. I realized then that much of the old, discarded stuff had more value than many realized. In fact, if you are knowledgeable about it, old equipment can be better than the more efficiently built newer.
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