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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17748
Location: Berkeley, California
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 Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | And what in bloody hell happened to this thread?
-Jaipal |
Well, I don't think it was dogma, but it is kind of bad manners. When this thread started, I watched but kept my mouth shut because I sail on a Bay, not in breaking waves. And it is breaking waves, not waves per se that is the difference. Iso is correct that a hump in the water caused by wind is a wave. But standard sailing right of way rules obtain until it is breaking. It is the extraordinary energy and chaos of a breaking wave, and the recreational value of those waves, that have led to surfers establishing a set of rules. While I have had waves break over my board and ankles on San Francsico Bay, I would not think it makes any sense to establish surfing rules for play in the Bay.
But the bigger question is what to do about Iso without descending to his level. For the past year, I have been highly amused at what things he would say, after a little googling, that were preposterous to anyone who actually knew the subject. I've fed the troll as much, or more, as anyone. Yet I fear that our distaste for Isobars is killing the threads, and costing us all a little karmic distress. Perhaps we should ignore him?
MAC (NOT MIKE!) |
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cgoudie1
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2599
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Josh,
They may not be waves, but they're tasty!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjsc0Fq07C4
I don't care what you call'm but I certainly have a swell time riding them
;*)
and if I could convince everybody I had ROW, then all your swells are belong to me.
I also am glad no one (in the original topic) was permanently damaged.
I wonder what the ROW rules are for this thread ;*)
-Craig
| jsampiero wrote: |
I'm submitting my testimony as an expert witness. While all the above agencies/individuals/etc may be experts about sines, cosines, periods and wavelengths, I know a shit-ton* more about windsurfing, surfing, the Gorge, the ocean, and the relevant topics to this conversation. There's no waves in the Gorge. Consider it the magazine's official stance.
I am glad to hear that the kiter wasn't injured. Hopefully he scores a good sesh there again sometime.
*shit-ton: def. technical term used to indicate vast amounts of something. Like knowledge about windsurfing. |
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harris52
Joined: 11 May 1998
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: |
That makes no sense to anyone who has actually read my posts in this thread. “The subject” Harris52 and I are trying to make is that “room should be given to carve to both wavesailors and swellriders because as sailors, we should all be aware of others intentions and desires and adhere to the principles of common courtesy and awareness.” Sure as hell I’m not inexperienced at carving on Gorge bumps after a hundred thousand miles of doing it … but you knew that because you read the thread … and anyone who thinks a good Gorge bump sailor can’t smack a lip and bottom turn all over hellenback, well, as you more or less said, “doesn’t know much about the Gorge”.
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Wow, it's amazing how well those two quotes from you and me work together side by side like that. It's almost like, water and .... oil.
So, Harris52's point was that nobody on a wave and nobody carving around on a swell has any ROW. Reading between the lines, this generally makes this offshoot of the thread a bit pointless, because it seemed to me to be starting to imply a power that wavesailors do not have. So the size and direction of our carves really don't matter and we actually are in the same boat with no ROW. It doesn't seem new to me and I'm sure others that swell riders should be given a bit of extra space. But the problem you have in the Gorge is more about traffic. Ultimately, that does mean that sometimes you back off because you have no ROW and instead revel in the fact that you're on a 4.0 in big rolling swell on a river, turn around and try and get it next time. If that much traffic came through the lineup on the ocean, that's what the incoming sailor would have to do. But you can still probably pick through a few lines, even if imperfect ones. Fortunately sometimes outbound sailors also have a little self-preservation instinct to not challenge the lip and prefer the side anyways. But staying out of each other's way by applying the golden rule is a long way from applying "wave rules". What you are really referring to is etiquette. I think a lot of people tend to think they do follow some etiquette in the Gorge. I do. The bigger problem is that there are a lot of outsiders completely unaware of any and there are a lot of sailors. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| harris52 wrote: | | It doesn't seem new to me and I'm sure others that swell riders should be given a bit of extra space. But the problem you have in the Gorge is more about traffic. |
You and I are the only ones in this thread who even admit that extra space is an old and popular idea, let alone a valid one. In the corridor in peak season, sure, the problem is sheer numbers plus ignorance. But why some sailors want to crowd others when there are 10 people in a half-mile of river escapes me; that's just ignorance, which I'm trying to reduce, despite the inexplicable opposition of people who think their need for extra space is unique.
Mike |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't isobars whining about the problem of working the crowd, especially if one wants to be in front of the bleachers? Really, one has to always work the crowd, regardless of the locale.
"Oh, I'm a local, so I can literally of do what I want to, irrespective of the crowd."
Yeah right! Nonsense in high gear.
When it comes to surfing and wavesailing, ownership and rights are always in the gray area. Without a doubt, one always has to earn their spot in the lineup, but that doesn't necessarily become some hard rule or requirement given the angst or theme of the crowd for the day. One only needs to understand a world class wave lineup.
The thing that isobars doesn't seem to get is that surf rules aren't really absolute law, and the circumstances don't always allow right of way, even if we might have it , or maybe want to insist on it.
I can't remember how many times I have been screwed on my outside set wave because so many were unaware of the next incoming set waves and ultimately became unwanted traffic on the inside. You can be a victim of the circumstances and you have to change and adjust your plan.
Given the realities of the lineup, it's a no brainer.
I don't think that our wingnut from the Great Northwest really appreciates the realities of the surf scene. |
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tsokat
Joined: 15 May 1997
Posts: 326
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| What is really sad about all of this is that a very civilized and valuable discussion among veteran sportsman about a surf break in northern california was interrupted, hijacked and turned into a pile of bullshit strewn verbiage as to whether or not wave riding rules apply to a river in the northwest. |
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jweaver
Joined: 10 May 1997
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| Nail on the head! Well said, tsokat. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Collision Yesterday at Waddell |
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| In the original post, Jaipal wrote: | | Most of all I am happy the post has brought ROW and safety to the forefront. |
Thanks, Jaipal, for bringing up and illustrating a problem common to sailors everywhere.
Too bad the rest of you can't see that past the chips on your shoulders. If you could, this would have been a much more broadly useful discussion applicable to the safety and enjoyment of sailors everywhere who love to depart from straight lines or who sail with those who do. |
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jweaver
Joined: 10 May 1997
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| With posts averaging more than once a day over the last 10 years since he joined IW, I think we can say that this guy needs an intervention. His condition is worsening. |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9120
Location: at a computer
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| Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: |
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ISO is an amazing animal. The thread is dead, over, kaput, finished , hashed over, refried, grilled, covered, and 12 pages long. BUt he still throws in one last barb "you guys", like a little kid who just doesnt want the fun to end, cant have it end, needs it not to end, to continue to exist as the wacked out mole that he is. Please Iwindsurf, please , please , neuter this curmudgeon, so a guy like me can just read the forum and learn a little bit about the sport so that next time I give Waddel a shot I wont get decapitated by a kite board.
Boggsman |
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